New Direction...

So I was talking with a group of photographers about a month or so ago and we got on the topic of wedding photography and how it is virtually being flooded with more and more new photographers every month it seems. The topic turned to wondering if there was anything different than wedding photography and catering to clients to photograph other events and the premise pretty much came down to if the client could find a family member to do it for next to nothing then that would be the route they'd choose. I've had that happen to me twice so far this year. I had one potential client email me yesterday and say that her brother can take the same pictures I have up on my website. That may be true. At some point I have to compete with people that charge nothing to shoot weddings? I thought competing against people who shoot weddings for $250 was bad... Seems like that's all there is now in my area. Sure sometimes their work is pretty shotty and the client probably wishes they'd paid a little more for someone to do it professionally but that does us no good. The bride crying shoulda, coulda, woulda after the fact never works in a wedding photographers line of work.

So after our little group started separating I was left chatting with an older fellow who said he'll never shoot another wedding or event ever again. Anything involving a payment for 6+ hours of work was no longer worth his trouble. I asked him what he does to make money and he says he sells framed pictures. I asked him if there was any money in it and he told me he recently sold a 20x30 canvas print in a professional frame for $950. He had it professionally framed, had about 2-3 hours of actual work in it (shooting, processing, etc) then he had someone frame it and he sold it at an art studio. He said it cost him around $200 for all of that. His net profit was $750. He says he sells 5-7 pictures per month.

This got me thinking. I asked him to look at some of my stuff and he he told me I should have one printed up and try to see if it would sell. There is a local art studio by me that sells that kind of stuff and I might just try and sell something there. Now I just need to look through my collection and see what I have that would sell as a large print. Maybe I won't go that large. I was thinking maybe a 11x16 or something like that and trying to sell it for $50 - $75. It could work...

So, has anybody else gone this route? I thought about selling on ebay or something like that but I think people might feel more comfortable buying "art" if they can actually see it and imagine it hanging on their wall after seeing the actual dimensions of it. I think if I bought picture art I'd be that way.

Another quick note:

Doing something like this would make it so easy to use film as well. I could certainly see me using film to expand to 20x30 canvas prints. I'd definitely have to break out my large format camera for that and it would be a fun experience I think...

...you want to make money in art photography?

A friend of mine owns a local art gallery. When a friend of mine asked him how to make money in art photography, he laughed. Its possible: but to make it and make consistent money from it he explained that you have to become known to the small number of buyers who regularly spend money on art. And to do that: you need to "suffer" for your work.

One of the things this other photographer told you was that he'll never shoot another wedding or event ever again. This is a key piece of information. My friend who owns a gallery said that if you want to make money from art you need to follow the road of the "tortured artist." Tortured artists don't shoot weddings and they don't shoot baby portraits. They are out staying in cabins miles of away from civilization trying to "find themselves." I'm exaggerating the point here (and so was my friend) but the point that he was trying to make is that to make it in the art world you need to effectively sell yourself, your vision, your story, much more than the work that you produce. Its not as easy as putting your work up in a gallery and watching it sell.

My advice would be to track down a couple of gallery owners and find some art buyers and have a chat to them. Find out from them what sells and what doesn't. Find out what draws them to a particular artist. Look at the guys who are selling work: how do they portray themselves? Look at their websites and look at their work. Interview some of them as well: not from a "how many do you sell" point of view but about their vision and how they approach their art.

Ultimately, the images you produce may well be the least important part of the process and is certainly the thing you should be thinking about the least right now. You need to invest time into researching this market before you even think about shooting in film.

While you are doing your market research: you should also be making a list of personal projects that you have always wanted to shoot. Don't worry about the marketability of your personal work, just list what you always wanted to shoot.

Towards the end of your research you might be able to see a link between what the market will buy, and the photographer you want to be. If you think you can marry the two up, then create a business plan based on what your new business model will be, then go out and make it happen. But if you honestly can't see it working then walk away.

But to be honest: there are easier ways to make money. Take a closer look at the market and take a closer look at your business plan. There is much more to shoot than weddings and portraits. And there are plenty of wedding photographers out there making money as well: and if there is something stopping you making money as a wedding photographer, don't you think that that same thing will stop you making money as a fine art photographer?

Selling pictures as Fine Art question

I say this with no direct judgment of your work, which I have not seen: If some clients are opting to go with a brother or family member to shoot their wedding, and if you feel you are competing with these entry level wedding photographers, then it suggests the quality of your work doesn't MANIFESTLY separate you from those other folks. Also, are your prices super super low or something ?

Compared to the prices I'm seeing around me I think I'm in the middle. I've seen some photographers charge $2200 on the high end and $250 on the low end.

I think I do great work. The brides I have shot weddings for are very happy with my product. On the flip side, I can understand the hiring a family member to shoot for free thing. I've done it. That's how I got my practice in. Shooting a few weddings for free helped me quite a bit. But the bride and groom have to be able to handle the fact that this free photographer just might screw it up. Not many can handle that.

I think I just got in this wedding photography thing a little too late. I wish I could have started 20 years ago but I was working a very good paying full time job with rotating days off so I worked a lot of weekends and couldn't shoot weddings like I wanted to. I was taught that you had to have a 40+ hour per week job. PERIOD. That's just my upbringing. I started shooting weddings for money during a slumping economy (2007) and when DSLR's became readily available at Wal Mart and Best Buy.

I was a contracted baby photog and family shots got seen by moms of visiting kids and got me more jobs than I wished to do. I did one wedding for an airman in my shop and decided they were not in my interest group. Do the best job of whatever you are shooting and the jobs will develop ( sorry couldn't pass that one up) If you have a good portfolio it will pull in customers.

I know you didn't ask this questions, but I looked at your website. Quick suggestion. Rearrange the order of pictures in your homepage slideshow. I feel some of your better work is burried at the end of the slideshow, and probably not seen by the majority of your visitors. I almost closed the page with the picture of the lady inside the bush. I am glad I didn't. I like the concept of the groom running towards the exit. Nicely done.

NewHorizonPhoto wrote in post #15462345
I know you didn't ask this questions, but I looked at your website. Quick suggestion. Rearrange the order of pictures in your homepage slideshow. I feel some of your better work is burried at the end of the slideshow, and probably not seen by the majority of your visitors. I almost closed the page with the picture of the lady inside the bush. I am glad I didn't. I like the concept of the groom running towards the exit. Nicely done.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking about doing that but haven't gotten around to it.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15461400
I say this with no direct judgment of your work, which I have not seen: If some clients are opting to go with a brother or family member to shoot their wedding, and if you feel you are competing with these entry level wedding photographers, then it suggests the quality of your work doesn't MANIFESTLY separate you from those other folks. Also, are your prices super super low or something ?

What is really being shaken out over the last few years is the fact that a great portion of the "wedding market" has always considered wedding photography to be a "necessary evil" of getting a photographic record of the event, not a highly desirable part of the wedding day.

They hired professionals in the past only because that was the only reliable way to get a photographic record at all. This portion of the market was never really concerned about quality, just the reliability of getting a record.

Now that have very high odds of nearly anyone being able to get a basic photographic record, they are able to follow the proclivity this portion of the market has always had to relegate photography to the lowest priority of the event.

This is not greatly different from the situation with family portrait photography. Only a very small portion of the "family portrait" market has ever been greatly concerned about artistic quality--in fact, it's probably the same people.

RDKirk wrote in post #15462471
This is not greatly different from the situation with family portrait photography. Only a very small portion of the "family portrait" market has ever been greatly concerned about artistic quality--in fact, it's probably the same people.

Funny you should mention that. The only thing that Walmart has failed at in my community is their portrait studio. They shut that down at our store because they were not getting any customers. All of the photo work was going to the people who were taking photos for dirt cheap and then giving them a disc to print their own photos. Wal Marts basic package was $35 or so if I recall.

You know it's bad when Walmart can't compete with something.

CameraMan wrote in post #15462508
Funny you should mention that. The only thing that Walmart has failed at in my community is their portrait studio. They shut that down at our store because they were not getting any customers. All of the photo work was going to the people who were taking photos for dirt cheap and then giving them a disc to print their own photos. Wal Marts basic package was $35 or so if I recall.

You know it's bad when Walmart can't compete with something.

Same in my community. Both the Walmart portrait studio and the Meijers (Olan Mills) studios have folded. There really is no bottom market for them.

The lower level satisfied by Sears, Portrait Innovations, and such still exists (at least, those outlets are still in business).

I consider my portrait work to be, frankly, the lowest rung of people who ideally would want painted portraits. I provide about the same level of artistic imagery and style as portrait painters, but at the ~$1000 point rather than the ~$10,000 point.

I guess portrait painters disdain what I do to the same extent I would disdain Walmart.

CameraMan wrote in post #15462068
I started shooting weddings for money during a slumping economy (2007) and when DSLR's became readily available at Wal Mart and Best Buy.

Sounds like you are competing with people that are doing the same thing you did.
I would suggest it's time to move on and up now.

If you are still playing at the low end of the market and not getting anything from it, then get out of that market. Raise your prices to a level that the people who do Value photography will look at.

You seem to have a very pessimistic and defeatist attitude about what you are doing.
I was in weddings 20 years ago and there was always the cheap arse shooters that just got a camera for Christmas thinking they were shooters. They would take the pics, get them printed to 6x4s at the local minilab, put them in a cheap plastic flip album and hand them over with the negs for probably about $50 over cost.

And every family had at least one Uncle Bob with a good camera who could take the pics for nothing and was only too glad to.
I used to get people ringing me asking If I could do their wedding pics for $ XXX or telling me about someone else that could. I'd tell them they would be better off going and buying a decent camera and putting $100 toward Film and processing at the local Chemist and getting Uncle bob to do the pics. I said that's about all the skill and quality a shooter at that price will put into your pics and if you buy the camera yourself, You'll at least have it to take on your honeymoon etc.

There ARE people that will pay for good photos, You just have to present yourself to them. Having packages from $2 to $2000 is not the way to do that, your whole marketing direction needs to be about quality not trying to be everything to everybody.

You pretty much only have 2 choices in this.
Keep doing the same thing and getting the same result or Change what you are doing and aim for something better.

Seems to me you have nothing to loose and lots to gain by going upmarket and getting away from the problems you have now.

I have thought of doing that. I have seen a few photographers in the $2500 range and I can shoot as well as they can. Really, there aren't many tricks that I don't know when shooting weddings.

I think my problem too is not advertising as much as I should. I can do that a little better I think. It's one of the things I'm planning to focus on this year. I do about 20 weddings per year at the middle of the road prices. Hopefully I can get more with better advertising.

Have you had any success with bridal shows? Do you get a lot of referrals? I don't know if you do weddings part time, but if I had a day job + 20 weddings, that would be too much, and I would definitely raise my prices. You could do say 1/4 less work yet still make the same money.