Is that extra f/stop really worth it with a flash?

Like the title says really.

I have a 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake lens and a Speedlite 430EX II. I've been looking at the 50 f/1.4 USM lens for when i do some nightclub portraits.

Obviously the 50 1.4 is about double the price, plus it's another 10mm which is a fair bit on my 1.6x crop sensor 650D.

When using a flash, is that extra f/stop really going to be useful?

Background information; ambient light
Better lens

bboysmax wrote in post #15464845
Like the title says really.

I have a 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake lens and a Speedlite 430EX II. I've been looking at the 50 f/1.4 USM lens for when i do some nightclub portraits.

Obviously the 50 1.4 is about double the price, plus it's another 10mm which is a fair bit on my 1.6x crop sensor 650D.

When using a flash, is that extra f/stop really going to be useful?

Yes. It will allow you more flexibility in correctly exposing the background and reducing the 'cave' effect (ie when the background is significantly darker than the subject using fill flash).

It also gives you a much brighter viewfinder, which reduces eye strain and lets you see more of the scene.

And it's two f-stops, not just one.

In a word, yes.
The two don't even deserve comparison. Get the 50 mm f1.4

gibbit1 wrote in post #15464920
And it's two f-stops, not just one.

ebiggs wrote in post #15465791
In a word, yes.
The two don't even deserve comparison. Get the 50 mm f1.4

I meant in general f/stops, then used those lenses as examples. But yes those lenses do have 2 f/stops not one

I may have to use the 40 f/2.8 until i can afford to sell it and buy the 50 f/1.4 with that advice!

Any thoughts on the Canon EF 35 f/2?

The wider aperture also improves focus and ETTL metering performance.

35 F2 is a good lens. I'm not sure why Canon introduced the 40 pancake. I think its primary market is video.

bboysmax wrote in post #15465827
I meant in general f/stops, then used those lenses as examples. But yes those lenses do have 2 f/stops not one

I may have to use the 40 f/2.8 until i can afford to sell it and buy the 50 f/1.4 with that advice!

Any thoughts on the Canon EF 35 f/2?

Here's one for $275 that's suppose to be a 10/10 condition.

https://photography-on-the.net …t=1264476&highl​ight=18-55

Shooting at a larger aperture will also put less strain on your flash, leading to better battery life in the long run

dmward wrote in post #15465885
The wider aperture also improves focus and ETTL metering performance.

35 F2 is a good lens. I'm not sure why Canon introduced the 40 pancake. I think its primary market is video.

The main reason i actually bought the 40 pancake was actually for video, but heard it was good for stills too! I like how small and compact it is on my 650D body.

mnphotos wrote in post #15465899
Here's one for $275 that's suppose to be a 10/10 condition.

https://photography-on-the.net …t=1264476&highl​ight=18-55

Ahh good lens and price, shame it's in USA and i'm in UK!

Wider aperture can mean less power needed from the flash
Wider aperture can allow more ambient in, for easier/better balance of lighting
Extra stop still gives you narrower DoF, if you want it
Some venues may not allow flash; so more light gathering from the lens would be good

bboysmax wrote in post #15464845
Like the title says really.

I have a 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake lens and a Speedlite 430EX II. I've been looking at the 50 f/1.4 USM lens for when i do some nightclub portraits.

Obviously the 50 1.4 is about double the price, plus it's another 10mm which is a fair bit on my 1.6x crop sensor 650D.

When using a flash, is that extra f/stop really going to be useful?

I did a lot of club photography when I still had my setup - had 50mm 1.4 also.

Especially in nightclubs, even if you can use flash, the faster lens still owns. The thing is, you really want to catch that lovely background ambient lighting - if you flash will work to hard, it will ruin the scene: all you will have is the boring flash light.

But the main problem is, people are jumping at you all the time, to get a picture. A lot of them will ask a group photo, and 50mm is just not wide enough, considering the lack of space in the most nightclubs. So you really need the flexibility of a zoom lens.

From my experience, the closer you can get, the better. If you are close enough, it doesn't matter what f-stop you are using (you flash tends to looks more natural, the closer you get). So wide lenses are just more practical, and get better results with flash.

I used Samyang 8mm fish eye, you could literaly get in someones face with your lens and still capture everyone standing nearby. The relative flash/lens also gets bigger, so flash gives more natural lighting.
Also, it allows you for really long shutter speeds, without bluring out background too much. At 17mm with IS on, you could shoot at 1/5 sec with ease.
You try that with 50mm non IS, and the background might have to much hand motion blur.

So buttom line is, I don't think 50mm is a good lens for nightclubs anyways - stick with your 17-85mm (unless you can put it on a second camera, the go for it I would say). Faster lens is always better, but IS and wide angle range is by far more important for nighclubs.

The ultimate lens for nightclubs is 17-55mm 2.8 IS - you can get the best from both worlds, wide angle, zoom flexibility, IS, fast optics to create out of focus elements.

50mm on a crop will be too long for club shooting. I recommend the Sigma 30mm 1.4. As a previous poster said, background info/ambient is key for good club shots. Just make sure to test the lens for the front focus issue. And watch the razor sharp DOF at 1.4.
Example:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/digitaldub/8367​472322/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/digitaldub/8367​466724/

The 650d is a cropped body so don't forget the "apparent" field of view difference between your current 40 and the tentative 50mm.

Pympologee wrote in post #15469627
50mm on a crop will be too long for club shooting. I recommend the Sigma 30mm 1.4. As a previous poster said, background info/ambient is key for good club shots. Just make sure to test the lens for the front focus issue. And watch the razor sharp DOF at 1.4.
Example:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/digitaldub/8367​472322/
IMG_4225-1 by Digital Dub, on Flickr

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/digitaldub/8367​466724/
IMG_4333-1 by Digital Dub, on Flickr

I also have the 17-85mm and would never dream of using it in the club. Just way to slow of a lens. The only thing going for it is the zoom range (which will distort people if you aren't careful). The image quality is no where near any of my primes either,

They are some nice shots, hmm the sigma sounds good but i have heard a fair bit about some of them having issues! 1.4 sounds great for low light, my 40 2.8 may be abit high. The shoot i'm doing is not going to be professional to a degree, they are just photos for his Facebook page.

John from PA wrote in post #15469764
The 650d is a cropped body so don't forget the "apparent" field of view difference between your current 40 and the tentative 50mm.

Agreed, the 1.6x crop is going to effect the actual 'mm', hence the 40 should give me a slightly wider view, but at a loss of 2 f/stops compaired to the 50 or the sigma 30