Speedlight and trigger buying advice please (YN-622c alternatives?)

I'm looking to change my lighting setup, and have been working under some assumptions based on the manual Clive put together. Before we go much further, let me make sure my assumptions are correct:

• YN-622c is capable of allowing a 5Dii make remote adjustments to power levels (manual, not meaning ettl ratios) on the following flashes: Canon 580ex II and 430ex II, Yongnuo 568ex, 565ex, 486 II.

• YN-622c is NOT capable of making these same adjustments to manual flashes such as the YN-560.

• AF-assist on the YN-622c works well.

• YN-622c is the best price to value offering currently for combining manual remote control of flash levels, and AF-assist.

• There are no current 3rd party offerings that are the equivalent of the Canon 600ex and ST-e3-rt.

Please let me know if any of the above are not true. Thanks.

All true. The 622 triggers are amazing. I have two sets and love them. They are great with ETTL, HSS, and the manual controls are easy. 0 regrets purchasing them.

The YN-622c also supports the Nissin Di866 II for both manual and ETTL, including HSS. The Di866 is supported for ETTL, including HSS but doesn't support remote manual settings.

The 560 is a manual flash with only the center fire pin -- all settings must be accomplished at the speedlite.

The YN-622c will also control the Canon 600EX-RT in ETTL and Manual, including HSS. i.e. the same functions as a 580EXII.

Awesome. Thanks for the confirmations guys. On to the meat of my question...

I'm in the process of moving from a mix of monolights and speedlights, with all non-ettl triggers, to an all speedlight system. The two features that are most important to me are remote adjustment of the speedlight settings, and AF-assist. Whether this is accomplished via triggers or an integrated flash system doesn't matter, but I don't really want to spend the money necessary for Canon's system. I don't really care about ETTL functionality, but if it's included I'll probably end up using it as a bonus feature.

Given this info, what would you recommend? Anyone know of a third party equivalent of the 600ex in the works? POTN user elv had something on his site about it, but I haven't seen anything lately floating around the forums.

I don't have a particular budget in mind, but if there are two options that offer the same functionality, I'll generally choose the less expensive one, because I'm a cheap bastard.

The 622c triggers combined with some of the Class 1 flashes in Clive's list would be my first pick. The only thing that stands in the way for me is the rechargeable battery issue. I'm rather averse to using non-rechargeables. Is this a serious problem? Do folks use rechargeables without problems? Maybe something I should ask in the 622c thread.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Nightdiver13 wrote in post #15485389
The 622c triggers combined with some of the Class 1 flashes in Clive's list would be my first pick. The only thing that stands in the way for me is the rechargeable battery issue. I'm rather averse to using non-rechargeables. Is this a serious problem? Do folks use rechargeables without problems? Maybe something I should ask in the 622c thread.

There is no issue with using rechargeable batteries with the YN-622s, providing -
High-quality type
High-quality charger
Diligent and informed user
Awareness that rechargeables fail - expect a life of 2 years.

Benefits of Alkaline -
They have a known reduction over its 1-cycle life
NiMH maintain a more constant voltage, usually. At some unknown stage it will fail.
Simple recharge regime - none. Get on with recharging the numerous flash batteries.
Fresh Alkaline batteries will test whether a faulty cell is causing instability.
Alkalines start at a much higher voltage over the designed "Battery-low" point of the 622s.

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15485462
There is no issue with using rechargeable batteries with the YN-622s, providing -
High-quality type - Check
High-quality charger - Check
Diligent and informed user - Hmm... well, diligent maybe
Awareness that rechargeables fail - expect a life of 2 years. - Check

Benefits of Alkaline -
They have a known reduction over its 1-cycle life
NiMH maintain a more constant voltage, usually. At some unknown stage it will fail.
Simple recharge regime - none. Get on with recharging the numerous flash batteries.
Fresh Alkaline batteries will test whether a faulty cell is causing instability.
Alkalines start at a much higher voltage over the designed "Battery-low" point of the 622s.

Thanks Clive.

So I guess a better way to phrase it might be: Do the 622c triggers have a lower tolerance for using rechargeables compared to other triggers? For example, I've used Cactus V5s, and Cybersyncs for the past couple years with rechargeables with no issues at all. But from the way the complaints are written, it sounds like the 622s can be really fickle.

Nightdiver13 wrote in post #15485502
But from the way the complaints are written, it sounds like the 622s can be really fickle.

The use of poor quality cells and/or poor charging techniques may have led to some of the complaints. Good quality cells (eneloops in particular) and chargers (Maha or La Crosse) would be acceptable provided you're aware of the lower initial voltage and the sudden drop in voltage of NiMH cells as they near depletion.

For just having fun or experimenting, I'd use eneloops. For serious use, fresh alkalines.

Which speedlite radio triggers?
Over the years I've used;
Cyber Sync;
Pocket Wizard ControlTL;
Pixel Knights;
YN-622c; and
Canon 600EX-RT built in radio triggers.

When I was using the Cyber Syncs the off camera speedlites were in manual and the on camera speedlite was in ETTL. This approach also meant that I could use monolights with no real change in shooting technique. This approach works well with a little planning.
Its only downside is that light placement becomes a critical consideration to ensure that the important areas on a room are properly lit with minimum likelihood that the light will blow out the subjects when they get too close. It also requires that all power changes to the lights have to be made at the light.

When Pocket Wizard introduced the ControlTL system I jumped in with both feet. I had 4 580EX speedlites, 3 originals and a II. Initially they were finicky. The RFI problem was a major problem for me. When they worked they worked great. When they were acting up they were very haphazard.

One problem I uncovered when trying to find a reliable configuration was need to use alkaline batteries. This admonition came to me from the support people at Pocket Wizard. Apparently the FlexTT5 is sensitive to voltage and the peak voltage from two rechargeable is too close to the cut off voltage for the unit. Moving to alkaline batteries did help.

The other move I made was to Nissin Di866 speedlites for the flexTT5s. These speedlites do not have the RFI problem. Once they were certified on the flexTT5 I got three of them. The system was now useable and reliable.

Always on the lookout for something that will make shooting easier, I got a set of the Pixel Knights when they were introduced. They were frustrating because two of the 4 units would not update firmware. It took some doing, but I finally got replacements from the supplier in China. They worked but were finicky to setup. They never were used in a "production" shooting environment.

At the beginning of 2012 Canon introduced the 600EX-RT. Just about the same time Yongnuo introduced the YN-622c. I initially purchased 2 600EX-RTs and an ST-E3-RT. They worked well with my 5DIIs but there were limitations due to the camera. When I got my first 5DIII it was a revelation. Canon has finally packaged a camera/speedlite system that supports the way I like to shoot.

Two off camera speedlites on stands, each set to ETTL in one group, another speedlite on camera set to ETTL in a different group. And I can change the configuration of the lights to one another from the back of the camera. The only time I have to go to the lights off camera is to change batteries, or reposition the light.

If I hadn't been willing to make the investment in the 600EX-RTs the YN-622s would be the best alternative. At present I have 6 of them and 5 speedlites that rely on them for control from the camera.
They work well with the 600EX-RTs. Essentially they are 580EXIIs to the YN-622. They also work well with the Di866s, although there is a difference between the features the model 1 and model 2 866s support.

I keep the YN-622s around because they give me a lot of bang for the buck. Their only limitation is the 3 groups. But that is really a Canon system design limit imposed on them. The 5 groups available with the 600EX-RT system quickly spoils one.

If I were starting from scratch today and had a 2012 version camera it would be the 600EX-RTs. Sure they are expensive but the capabilities are beyond anything available from another alternative.

If I had a pre-2012 camera and wasn't planning to upgrade soon then the Y-622 system is the best choice. There may be others I haven't used that do the same thing but these work. The only glitch seems to be that the Nissin Di866 MkII seems to want to be reset along with the YN-622 to which its attached. Not sure why, but once that's done it works fine.

Wow. Great writeup. Thanks a lot for taking me through your experiences David. For my uses, the 600ex sounds like the best solution for sure, but the cost is prohibitive. For 5 flash units and the ST-e3 transmitter, it would be around $3000 which is a bit high. That's why I'm so curious about any 3rd party manufacturers coming to the table with alternatives. For now though, I think the 622c solution sounds like the best. Thanks again.

The Phottix Odin are another good alternative to the ST-E3-RT. They don't like YN flashes though so you would need to trade those in for something like Canon 550EX or Nissin Di866 (or Phottix's own flash out soon).

The 622's are great for what they are bit I think you may be pushing your luck little with serious use and a 5 flash set up.

I put a bit of guide up to the TTL triggers options here if that adds any insight - http://flashhavoc.com/​ttl-radio-trigger-guide/

I was hoping you'd pop in here elv. Actually, I've read a lot of your site, including the comparison you posted, and it's a lot of great info. The Odins were on my radar but I eventually dismissed them because they don't offer AF-assist which is one of my major requirements.

The items that were most intriguing to me on your site were the Rikon flash that was just in concept stages, and the Godox Witstro bare bulb flashes. Any further info on those, or anything else like those? I think a system like that would be ideal, assuming good functionality and reliability. Otherwise, I may also wait to see what the Pixel King II look like.

Thanks, no worries, yes the Odin AF light is a pity. The YN-622C one is great, even though it is a bit dodgy that many are off target. The other issue is people are starting to report back focus problems with the AF light. I though that may come up eventually, and I have no idea what, from one AF light to the next, is going to make a difference there. Its likely very much due to different lenses too. But having that AF light is brilliant sometimes.

The ST-E3 doesn't have an AF light either though. Phottix have the AF light in their new flash, so logic says it will end up in the Odin at some stage now too. The AF light wasn't a simple thing for these companies to source, but now they have started I'm sure we will see a lot more.

Regarding the others, I would even wait for a YN version with an interface, the 622 are already a way ahead in the way they communicate. Its a pity YN don't make some higher quality gear now (with a USB port for example) as they have really lifted the bar with the electronics this time. But that's where Phottix come in with higher quality gear anyway, and no doubt they will have new options eventually too.

Not much detail on the Godox yet, I'm sure there will be many of those type of units to come now though. Once there is a good design and reasonable price it will really kickstart things.

Thanks again for all the info elv.

Too bad about the ST-E3's lack of AF-assist. I'd just been working on the assumption that since the ST-E2 had one, this new one would as well. As they say, "when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me", but just me in this case.

Maybe I'll just keep on keeping on for the time being and see what this new year holds in store for flashes and triggers.