LR: Basic vs. Tone Curve

I am currently in the midst of a 30-day trial of LR and have a simple question... As I understand it, the sliders in the Basic pane and the options in the Tone Curve pane are simply two different ways of modifying the same basic data.

For example, in the Basic pane, I set the Contrast slider to +48. I can achieve an essentially identical result using the Tone Curve options by setting the Point Curve to Strong Contrast.

It seems to me that these two panes are essentially two different user interfaces to make the same kind of modifications. Is this correct?

Are there situations where I should use one over the other (that is, the Basic sliders versus the Tone Curve sliders)?

Thanks,
David

Yes I think you are essentially correct. In older versions of ACR/LR I used to use both the basic sliders and make use of the Tone curve adjustments. Since moving to LR4 and using Process 2012 with the new set of sliders for Highlights and Shadows, as well as black and white point adjustment I do not seem to "need" to use the controls available with the Tone curves. As with all things PP there are many ways to skin the cat, so what works (mostly) for me may not work for you, or always for me for that matter!

Alan

I will occasionally use the Tone Curve to "fine tune" things -- one area where you may benefit is from tweaking the mid-tones, but I don't resort to that often, possibly because I aim to expose my mid-tones properly, whereas shadows and highlights can need some attention!

My experience is the same as Alan's and I find that I seldom need to use the Tone Curve now. I would add, though, that you can also use the Tone Curve to affect only a single color (R, G, or B) to create different effects, such as "cooling" shadows or "warming" highlights.

I'm not using the Tone Curve much at all in LR 4. The amount of adjustment you can now make with the Basic sliders is really impressive.

The point curve option allows a much larger range of corrections / optimizations / creative effects than you can achieve with the Tone section of the Basic Tab. The point curve allows extremely fine modification of tonality and contrast unlike many of the other sliders. Moreover, the point curve is not a smart tool. Many of the process 2012 sliders in the Tone section of the Basic Tab are content aware.

Referencing the Contrast slider versus the Point Curve, you have MUCH more control using the Point Curve. In most situations we recommend rarely using the Contrast slider because the rough nature of the effect.

Bull could you please explaing what you mean by the "Point Curve" regarding Lightroom? There is from what I see no "Point Curve" tool...?

He means that you can modify/add control points on the tone curve, which gives you much more control. For example: S curve, lifting shadows, etc... If you look at the bottom of the Tone Curve there is a section called Point Curve. Basic presets are linear, medium, strong contrast and of course you can make custom ones. If you click on the square it will hide the sliders on the Tone Curve and will show control points. For example if you have it on medium contrast it should show 5 control points. You can delete, add, adjust these points however you choose. I also think it's one of the strongest tools in LR.

boingy wrote in post #15490335
He means that you can modify/add control points on the tone curve, which gives you much more control. For example: S curve, lifting shadows, etc... If you look at the bottom of the Tone Curve there is a section called Point Curve. Basic presets are linear, medium, strong contrast and of course you can make custom ones. If you click on the square it will hide the sliders on the Tone Curve and will show control points. For example if you have it on medium contrast it should show 5 control points. You can delete, add, adjust these points however you choose. I also think it's one of the strongest tools in LR.

Good explanation!

I work with both panels, Basic and Tone Curve, but I generally prefer to use the Parametric Curve rather than the Point Curve. [Ironic because when I first started with LR2 I had a hard time accepting the lack of a point curve editor, like many veterans of pixel editor use]. I see the TC as a supplement to alter some things I don't like about the Basic panel. First, I'm not thrilled about the automatic black point setting and prefer to set a basic black point in the Parametric TC by pushing the Shadows zone definer to 10% and the slider to -100 and then raising the Blacks as needed. Second, I love the Basic panel Shadows slider and always use it, but it does have a tendency to flatten the shadow tones as it raises them, which I prefer to counter by a combination of Clarity and positive Darks rather than increasing global Contrast in Basic.

Thanks everyone for your comments. Good to know I'm understanding these features properly.

I've another LR question... maybe I should start a different thread but let me first ask it here... I really like the HSL controls but often find that I want to limit their effect to one particular region of the image. Is there any way to accomplish this?

davidgp wrote in post #15495850
Thanks everyone for your comments. Good to know I'm understanding these features properly.

I've another LR question... maybe I should start a different thread but let me first ask it here... I really like the HSL controls but often find that I want to limit their effect to one particular region of the image. Is there any way to accomplish this?

You would use a local Adjustment Brush. There are various develop controls you can set, including one where you can select a color to adjust. There isn't a specific HSL setting, you just have to play with it to get a "feel" of what it can do (Saturation, etc).

tonylong wrote in post #15495934
You would use a local Adjustment Brush. There are various develop controls you can set, including one where you can select a color to adjust. There isn't a specific HSL setting, you just have to play with it to get a "feel" of what it can do (Saturation, etc).

Ah, yes, I know what you are referring to. Thanks, I will play with this.

Just a side comment... one of the strengths I've found in LR vs. PSE (I'm currently using PSE-11, and have used two prior versions) is that LR seems very integrated and consistent with minimal overlap of functionality.

PSE on the other hand has twelve ways of doing anything and each tool seems to be designed without regard to how the other tools operate, so you end up with a confusing collection of tools whose functions overlap but operate differently, with incomsistent options and features.

I hope that as LR progresses it maintains a consistent UI without "a dozen ways to get what you want." For example, why wouldn't the HSL tools be available in the Adjustment Brush, rather than having a "Select a Color" option? Another, example, why are the sliders available in the Basic panel different than those available with the Adjustment Brush and the Graduated Filter?

I'm OK with inconsistency when there are valid reasons to be inconsistent, but isn't it reasonable to have both Whites and Highlights sliders in the Adjustment Brush?

davidgp wrote in post #15496108
Ah, yes, I know what you are referring to. Thanks, I will play with this.

Just a side comment... one of the strengths I've found in LR vs. PSE (I'm currently using PSE-11, and have used two prior versions) is that LR seems very integrated and consistent with minimal overlap of functionality.

PSE on the other hand has twelve ways of doing anything and each tool seems to be designed without regard to how the other tools operate, so you end up with a confusing collection of tools whose functions overlap but operate differently, with incomsistent options and features.

I hope that as LR progresses it maintains a consistent UI without "a dozen ways to get what you want." For example, why wouldn't the HSL tools be available in the Adjustment Brush, rather than having a "Select a Color" option? Another, example, why are the sliders available in the Basic panel different than those available with the Adjustment Brush and the Graduated Filter?

I'm OK with inconsistency when there are valid reasons to be inconsistent, but isn't it reasonable to have both Whites and Highlights sliders in the Adjustment Brush?

I can't even answer all your questions, but one of the reasons for the sliders being different in the adjustment brush and gradients is they are meant to be relative to the overall adjustments made in the basic panel, and you're just deviating from the overall. I know that explanation doesn't work for everything, but I have seen that response from a LR programmer. As for the Whites and Highlights, all I can think of is that the whites function is meant to be rather global and that adjusting it locally means that maybe you should have adjusted differently in the first place? I'm just guessing on that one.

I actually used to (and still often) export my LR edits to Photoshop (or elements in your case) and make all the local adjustments there. I'm more comfortable doing that on a layer my layer basis, although LR 4 is doing better with that brush.

There are several good tutorials around that explain the processing power available in Lightroom, especially PV 2012. One I like is available from Luminous Landscape website.

There is a thread here offering a free trial to access another lengthly video tutorial that also appears to offer substantial insight.