DLO : Sharpening before or after ?

Canon says that one should set sharpness at 0 before applying DLO.
So I have done a test : I set sharpness at 0 and apply DLO and then I set sharpness at max value (10) and apply DLO. Here are the pics I obtained (100% crop). I don't see any significant difference. Do you ?

Looks the same to me, but bear in mind I'm looking with aged eyes!

The general rule is sharpening should always be the final step before an image is saved for final presentation, be it web use or printing.

tim wrote in post #15490472
The general rule is sharpening should always be the final step before an image is saved for final presentation, be it web use or printing.

That's the old general rule. The new general rule, for the last six, seven years, is to distinguish between input sharpening and output sharpening. (A third type of sharpening, local and creative, may or may not come between the two.) The purpose of input sharpening is limited to counteracting the effects of the anti-aliasing low pass filter, not to achieving perfect sharpness. In addition, DLO is profile-based and specific to correcting loss of sharpness caused by the aberrations of a particular lens model, an action that has to be performed at the Raw level before the image data has been altered. Since DLO creates a new and altered copy of the Raw, embedded in the original CR2 file, which is then used as the operative Raw, it can only come at the beginning of the workflow.

yb - I had the impression, that the instruction to set the Raw tab sharpening to 0 is more for psychological reasons than for technical ones; in order that the user can better judge the desired level of DLO. Also, it is likely that after DLO less Raw tab sharpening will be needed.

tzalman wrote in post #15490545
yb - I had the impression, that the instruction to set the Raw tab sharpening to 0 is more for psychological reasons than for technical ones; in order that the user can better judge the desired level of DLO. Also, it is likely that after DLO less Raw tab sharpening will be needed.

Ah ok, I see. So the sharpening set in the RAW tab is just used during the preview if you uncheck the "do not sharpen preview" checkbox. So in all cases DLO is applied to non sharpened data. That make sense. Thanks.

So if you set sharpening at 0, then should be no difference if you check or uncheck the "do not sharpen preview" .

yb98 wrote in post #15490553
So in all cases DLO is applied to non sharpened data. That make sense. Thanks.

So if you set sharpening at 0, then there should be no difference if you check or uncheck the "do not sharpen preview" .

Yes, the "regular" sharpening is part of the process for rendering a tiff or jpg and is applied at that time. Like other non-destructive edits, it has no effect on the Raw file. But DLO is fundamentally different; it does change the Raw data. Because of this it is not truly non-destructive, but it also is not entirely destructive either, because it does not overwrite the original version and the altered version can be later removed.

tzalman wrote in post #15490566
Yes, the "regular" sharpening is part of the process for rendering a tiff or jpg and is applied at that time. Like other non-destructive edits, it has no effect on the Raw file. But DLO is fundamentally different; it does change the Raw data. Because of this it is not truly non-destructive, but it also is not entirely destructive either, because it does not overwrite the original version and the altered version can be later removed.

What i strange, is why they don't apply the same method that is used for noise reduction. When setting values for noise reduction, it just takes some time to recalculate the preview but it doesn't record a second set of raw data. I'm wondering why the can't apply the same method for DLO...

So let's get something straight -- does DLO alter the Raw data so that it can be viewed/read in another Raw reader such as Lightroom/Camera Raw?

If not we are limited to converting to a jpeg/tiff to work with the converted files, right?

We have to get this stuff clear, right?

I tend to apply sharpening in three distinct stages. The first is a "capture" sharpen applied as the very first thing I do to the image when it opens in Photoshop. Then after tweaking the image I apply a second stage of sharpening and lastly prior to printing do the third, suited to the print size I am planning. This last stage is not required for web posting.

I use a Photoshop plug-in from Photokit for this, which I firmly believe does a better job than either DPP or Photoshop.

tonylong wrote in post #15490771
So let's get something straight -- does DLO alter the Raw data so that it can be viewed/read in another Raw reader such as Lightroom/Camera Raw?

If not we are limited to converting to a jpeg/tiff to work with the converted files, right?

We have to get this stuff clear, right?

It inserts an encrypted Raw that only DPP can read.