second attempt with Rogue speedlight grid/gel kit

This evening I tried changing things up a bit in an attempt to achieve more coverage with the Rogue grid & gel kit.

(See this thread to see where I left off with my first attempt.)

Tonight I decided to take play with the grid and bezel, and distance from background.

Below are six photos. All were shot at 1/200, f/5.0, ISO200, 1/2 power manual flash, and 20mm flash zoom.

I just can't seem to produce anything pleasing without overdoing it and getting a lot of background spill. Is it the color of my background?
Seems like the only decent results I got were when the grid was removed.

It would be nice if Expo Imaging had product videos of these gels in actual use.


1) 4 feet from black background, 45 degree grid, no gel.

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You say you have your flash set to 20mm zoom?? (So I assume you are using a 600ex-rt?).............I am not sure if that is the problem, or if this will help. But try zooming it to 200mm and see what kind of difference that makes.

Just a thought, don't hold me to anything

Dustman wrote in post #15494558
You say you have your flash set to 20mm zoom?? (So I assume you are using a 600ex-rt?).............I am not sure if that is the problem, or if this will help. But try zooming it to 200mm and see what kind of difference that makes.

Just a thought, don't hold me to anything

I'm not trying to make a snoot effect. All I really want is to be able to nicely fill in a background, as uniformly as possible. A slight halo effect is okay, but not more than that. If I zoom my flash to 200mm that would be the opposite of what I want.

The problem I am experiencing is that in order to produce a background to my liking, I have to crank the power up to at least half on a speedlight and remove the grid as I did in the photos below.

I am really considering abandoning this endeavor and getting a barndoor and gel kit for one of my Genesis 200 lights instead.

I have the bare speedlight set from them for this kind of thing:

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_Lighting_Filte​r_Kit.html

If you want to control the spill a little and still use the speedlite, there is the Interfit strobies barndoor, but I have never used it:

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …R105_Strobies_4​_Leaf.html

coeng wrote in post #15495466
If I zoom my flash to 200mm that would be the opposite of what I want.

I disagree with this. You are using the grid and holder to control the spread of the light. Zooming to 200 will up the intensity of the light but, it will still fall in the same pattern. To create an even spread, you will need to work more with the position of the light. Backing it further from the background will decrease noticable falloff as will raising it.

Bob

coeng wrote in post #15495466
I'm not trying to make a snoot effect. All I really want is to be able to nicely fill in a background, as uniformly as possible. A slight halo effect is okay, but not more than that. If I zoom my flash to 200mm that would be the opposite of what I want.

The problem I am experiencing is that in order to produce a background to my liking, I have to crank the power up to at least half on a speedlight and remove the grid as I did in the photos below.

I am really considering abandoning this endeavor and getting a barndoor and gel kit for one of my Genesis 200 lights instead.

How is this a problem? Are you trying to keep the light off of the couch? Are you framing the final picture with all the furniture in it or just getting the background?

BigCarbs wrote in post #15496637
How is this a problem?

I was hoping to use 1/8 or 1/4 power so that I wouldn't go through batteries so quickly. I didn't know any better since I am very new to gels. There just isn't enought information available online for a newbie to succeed at gelling without spending money on modifiers, kits, and other items, and not getting the results you expect.

coeng wrote in post #15496656
I was hoping to use 1/8 or 1/4 power so that I wouldn't go through batteries so quickly. I didn't know any better since I am very new to gels. There just isn't enought information available online for a newbie to succeed at gelling without spending money on modifiers, kits, and other items, and not getting the results you expect.

LOL get rechargable batteries. or get plug in strobe for home.

First, zooming has a similar result to using the grid. The zoom feature on a speedlite reduces the diameter of the cone to coincide with the angle of view of a lens. There is also fall off from the brighter center to a dimmer edge. While 200mm may be too much, there is likely some setting between 20 and 200 that will work. The side benefit is that zooming increases the light efficiency of the speedlite while attaching a grid diminishes it.

Using gels impacts the power of the light source. That's a given. How much depends on the gel density.

Unless I totally miscontrue what you are saying, it seems as though you are working under a total misconception.

IF what you are trying to achieve is a wash of even colour at even intensity over the whole background as visible in your finished image then you simply do not need the grid at all. Like the zoom head on your flash, a grid is designed to restrict the spread of light and not to even it out. Evening out is a function of the flash reflector (built-in) and varies according to both distance and zoom setting. There will inevitably be some spill, which is only problematic if it's then reflected off another coloured surface adjacent to the background (you'd get a graduated colour cast from the direction of the reflecting surface).

You will probably find that juggling a grid and the zoom setting can actually give you a blotchy light where the pattern of the grid is projected onto the background (obscured on a draped background to a great degree). So if what you want is an even wash, a grid is not the way to achieve it. If you consider the three images here and extrapolate, you should understand the concept of light coning a little better. What you seem to be seeking is to exclude the penumbra from your background lighting, something which can only be achieved by

• NOT coning the light down, with either a grid or the zoom reflector. Notice how the proportion of the annular penumbra to fully-lit area is far greater on the 16° image than on even the 25° one.
  
• Greater distance between background flash unit and the background itself.
  

Whortleberry wrote in post #15499486
IF what you are trying to achieve is a wash of even colour at even intensity over the whole background as visible in your finished image .....

Not necessarily. All I am really looking for is the ability to consistently make a pleasing background color (using different gels) spread out enough so that I can have multiple subjects (children in my case) in the shot, but not to the point where spill becomes an issue. I thought I would be able to accomplish this with a speedlite but as you pointed out, I had at least three factors working against me.

In a change of direction last night I gave up on the speedlite approach. I decided to mount one of my monolights from the joists above my drop ceiling using a magic arm. The light was just behind the subject, overhead, angled down towards the background. I used a 40 degree grid and a pink gel (actually a transparent lid to a disposable tupperware container) gaffered to the reflector. Turns out the DIY gel worked out quite well whilst I wait for my larger gels to arrive in the mail.

I will post pics later today of my latest shots. I think I'm going to have to stop down my aperture a bit. Shooting at f5.6 causes my background to be out of focus. This would be okay for seamless paper, but not a cloth backdrop.

BTW, since you asked the backdrops I use are wrinkle-free Boss backdrops. Someone on this site once recommended them to me. I have black, white, brown, and two patterned ones as well. My grey one is on order...that is the one I plan to use for gelling.

Is this them?

http://www.bossbackdro​ps.com/

FEChariot wrote in post #15500269
Is this them?

http://www.bossbackdro​ps.com/

Yes.

do you find the light from the grids are soft enough? I want to do spotlight as key light sometimes...but worried that it might be too harsh. I Just got the Rogue Grids today. I found that the normal Rogue gels work just fine as well I just put it on the flash as I normally would and then put the grid snoot/bezel/grid.

I'm sure I probably can't avoid shadows when using grid, but hopefully don't have to worry about hot-spots..

thanks