Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 16 Jan 2013 (Wednesday) 13:51
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Artist ???

 
Clean ­ Gene
Goldmember
1,014 posts
Joined Nov 2010
     
Jan 16, 2013 23:48 |  #46

tonylong wrote in post #15498952 (external link)
Heh! Another "Interesting POTN Discussion":)!

I agree that the OP doesn't need to waste energy on an individual who calls him/herself an "artist", and then to waste our energy by ranting about it!

That being said, we've had some very interesting discussions here with some pretty accomplished and insightul photogs about what consitutes a photograph as "art", what criteria?

One or two people will actually go as far to say that most photography is not art. It may be documenting an interesting scene, event, people, but it's more about the craft and vision of that documentation process, but falls short of what at least these folks consider "art".

For my "work", I dunno. I've spent a lot of time shooting what gets called "fine art" photography, although for me it first requires that NATURE be the "artist" for much of my shooting, whether it be a cool landscape scene, a beautiful flower, a macro of a very cool bug...or, maybe I'm looking to catch "scenes" and "character" in my street photography or event photography, waiting for something that meets my criteria as "interesting" or whatever...

It should be said that we've seen some serious disagreements in these discussions, so you might consider them "futile", but I have had my thought processes stirred up numerous times.

I do not at this point consider myself an "artist", maybe never will, but I do seek to open myself up to "creative vision" and I do look for good "subject matter"!


I think my whole issue with the "is it art" debate is that whatever side I end up on, I can't really say that it matters.

It's like, if I question if something is art and then I come to the conclusion that it is art, so what? Being "art" doesn't mean it's good, right? Being "art" doesn't mean that there's any kind of value to it, does it?

Alternatively, I could question if something is art and then decide that no, it is not art. Again...so what? Not being "art" doesn't really mean that it's not cool as hell. Not being "art" doesn't mean that it doesn't have value or serve some kind of useful purpose.

So, to the question of "is this art?" Yes/no/maybe, is that even a meaningful question? Does it even matter whether or not it's art? I'm sort of leaning towards NO. I think the far better question is if it's any GOOD, what purpose it serves, what value it has.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 546
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jan 17, 2013 00:09 |  #47

Gene, yeah, I get your points, valid ones.

The effect of those discussions on me is less about a defined answer to "is it art?" and more of just a bit of sef-analyzing, looking at my process and vision, and stuff like the "Composition" subject and how it relates to me.

Of course we all see work that we love, and we see work that, well, not-so-much. But unless a photo by someone else inspires me or at least gets me thinking, well, I move on!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
15,545 posts
Gallery: 168 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 5530
Joined Dec 2008
Location: from Pennsylvania, now in Washington state, road trip back and forth a lot, with extensive detouring
     
Jan 17, 2013 01:27 |  #48

Clean Gene wrote in post #15499021 (external link)
I think my whole issue with the "is it art" debate is that whatever side I end up on, I can't really say that it matters.

It's like, if I question if something is art and then I come to the conclusion that it is art, so what? Being "art" doesn't mean it's good, right? Being "art" doesn't mean that there's any kind of value to it, does it?

Alternatively, I could question if something is art and then decide that no, it is not art. Again...so what? Not being "art" doesn't really mean that it's not cool as hell. Not being "art" doesn't mean that it doesn't have value or serve some kind of useful purpose.

So, to the question of "is this art?" Yes/no/maybe, is that even a meaningful question? Does it even matter whether or not it's art? I'm sort of leaning towards NO. I think the far better question is if it's any GOOD, what purpose it serves, what value it has.

Gene, everything you say here is "spot on". What you say generally mirrors my thoughts on this issue, I am just unable to articulate it so well. Thanks!


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
SOK
Goldmember
Avatar
1,592 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Jun 2008
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
     
Jan 17, 2013 04:40 |  #49

If he has a great camera that takes nice pictures, then he's an artist.


Steve
SOK Images - Wedding and Event Photography Gold Coast (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sjones
Goldmember
Avatar
2,237 posts
Likes: 207
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
     
Jan 17, 2013 11:22 as a reply to  @ SOK's post |  #50

The problem with the 'subjectivity' of art is that its ambiguity becomes a crutch for some people. Well, they might say to themselves, art is so fluidly subjective and, consequently, lacks any real meaning that I don't have to aspire to such realm. Besides, look at the criminal amount of pretentiousness and politics involved in the 'art world.'

And these sentiments are not altogether wrong. Art is subjective, and it has historically been entwined with political favoritism, marketing, and pretentious assumptions.

Now, just to clarify, not all, perhaps not most, photography aspires to be 'art.' And as such, I recognize this issue doesn't apply to all photographers by any means.

However, I have my own sense of art, one that establishes a certain level of quality and expectation. Whether I myself am producing 'art' is not the concern, but instead, whether I'm attaining the aesthetic level that I seek with my photography. And in this, there are certain artistic elements that are relevant, and the existence of the arts certainly helps reveal these elements. They are not cemented rules and nor is this just a matter of blind emulation. Instead, through the art of others, I hope to develop a better instinct beneficial to my photography.

If I am to wholly dismiss the notion of art, then I should be one to wholly dismiss the aesthetic, which would be detrimental to my goals.

This is just my take, of course.


July 2018-July 2019 (external link)
It's the Photographer (external link) | God Loves Photoshop (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Kronie
Goldmember
Avatar
2,183 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Jun 2008
     
Jan 17, 2013 11:41 |  #51

HiepBuiPhotography wrote in post #15496880 (external link)
One of the worst rants I've read on PotN. Let him call whatever he wants to label himself.

In this day and age, I can poo on a piece of paper and consider that art and myself an artist. I've seen art exhibits of just a urinal, a painting that's completely blue, something that looks like a color palette from home depot, etc. (all from the Philadelphia Art Museum). You name it, they have it. Art is subjective, so anything can be considered art. That being said, if he wants to label his photographs art, then so be it. It shouldn't bother you at all. If I want to label myself the best wedding photographer in the universe, so be it. Whether it's true or not, he himself knows. Period.

Agreed. My wife is an artist. She went to art school, has a degree in art, teaches art full time.

Me? I am a fartist.....

......"but, is it art"?....




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 462
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Jan 17, 2013 11:49 as a reply to  @ Kronie's post |  #52

I am an artist...sometimes...w​ith no degree of regularity.
You might compare me to the proverbial blind squirrel with my "art" being the acorn. :lol:


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
"spouting off stupid things"
Avatar
56,090 posts
Likes: 2811
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Jan 17, 2013 12:42 |  #53

Kronie wrote in post #15500574 (external link)
Me? I am a fartist.....

......"but, is it art"?....

It can be, do you do it with flair and artistically?


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Kronie
Goldmember
Avatar
2,183 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Jun 2008
     
Jan 17, 2013 15:29 |  #54

Todd Lambert wrote in post #15497044 (external link)
I'm a fartist.

Man, I just noticed you beat me to this!

I guess I could be.......a shartist?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,696 posts
Gallery: 160 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 6886
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Jan 17, 2013 19:06 as a reply to  @ Kronie's post |  #55

One thing that is true in almost all art is the artist. That means you see some of the artist in his/her work. Judging art is not as subjective as many think. My advice is work honestly. That means don't do it for money or praise but do it for the right reasons. Rarely is anything created for commercial reasons and I say that in the context of anything created for money art. Create and don't worry whether what you are doing is art. Wasn't it Steichen that said art for arts sake is dead if it ever lived. Don't worry about whether to call your work art or not just create but you can pretty much bet if its obvious or only a factual document or a noun its probably not art. Now if you can show what the object or idea is/means to you, the photographer and also if we can see some of the photographer in the work then just maybe you might be getting close but leave that to history and the ones that judge those kinds of things.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Savethemoment
Senior Member
Avatar
488 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 72
Joined Jun 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Jan 18, 2013 07:11 |  #56

sjones wrote in post #15500487 (external link)
The problem with the 'subjectivity' of art is that its ambiguity becomes a crutch for some people. Well, they might say to themselves, art is so fluidly subjective and, consequently, lacks any real meaning that I don't have to aspire to such realm. Besides, look at the criminal amount of pretentiousness and politics involved in the 'art world.'

And these sentiments are not altogether wrong. Art is subjective, and it has historically been entwined with political favoritism, marketing, and pretentious assumptions.

Now, just to clarify, not all, perhaps not most, photography aspires to be 'art.' And as such, I recognize this issue doesn't apply to all photographers by any means.

However, I have my own sense of art, one that establishes a certain level of quality and expectation. Whether I myself am producing 'art' is not the concern, but instead, whether I'm attaining the aesthetic level that I seek with my photography. And in this, there are certain artistic elements that are relevant, and the existence of the arts certainly helps reveal these elements. They are not cemented rules and nor is this just a matter of blind emulation. Instead, through the art of others, I hope to develop a better instinct beneficial to my photography.

If I am to wholly dismiss the notion of art, then I should be one to wholly dismiss the aesthetic, which would be detrimental to my goals.

This is just my take, of course.


I think all the above is spot on - especially the second half.

It also uses 'marketing' for (I think) the first time in this thread. It sounds to me as if the person the OP describes is using the term 'artist' as part of his marketing approach. And we all know that marketing involves some exaggeration, is not necessarily to be taken too seriously. In the end members of his audience/market will decide for themselves - and who is to say they are wrong?

An interesting discussion anyway :)


Always learning
Always looking for the good light

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
BenjaminJ
Member
110 posts
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
     
Jan 18, 2013 09:00 |  #57

NWPhil wrote in post #15496864 (external link)
Other people care, and believe in it because he call himself such ..and they don't know better.

Randy says it well, that you have to earn the title - just like the appalachian trail thru hikers - they are given a nickname; they don't choose one :)

Yes, he can call himself one, just like anyone else can. I seen him in action - he is not in pursue of intelectual recognizition, therefore my useless rant about this.

Just FYI, half the thru hikers I met while doing the trail, chose their own name.


Canon T3i. Canon 18-55mm IS, Canon 75-300mm, Tamrom 10-24mm wide angle.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
"spouting off stupid things"
Avatar
56,090 posts
Likes: 2811
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Jan 18, 2013 09:03 |  #58

BenjaminJ wrote in post #15504374 (external link)
Just FYI, half the thru hikers I met while doing the trail, chose their own name.

Well that's cause a significant portion of the hikers are hiking alone so who would give them their nicknames? ;):)


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
BenjaminJ
Member
110 posts
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
     
Jan 18, 2013 09:35 |  #59

gjl711 wrote in post #15504385 (external link)
Well that's cause a significant portion of the hikers are hiking alone so who would give them their nicknames? ;):)

People you meet on the trail. You meet a ton of people on you way through. I solo hiked the georgia section, and while you might be alone during the day while hiking, your almost never alone at night at the camp sites.


Canon T3i. Canon 18-55mm IS, Canon 75-300mm, Tamrom 10-24mm wide angle.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Todd ­ Lambert
I don't like titles
Avatar
12,643 posts
Gallery: 9 photos
Likes: 131
Joined May 2009
Location: On The Roads Across America
     
Jan 18, 2013 10:01 |  #60

airfrogusmc wrote in post #15502315 (external link)
One thing that is true in almost all art is the artist. That means you see some of the artist in his/her work. Judging art is not as subjective as many think. My advice is work honestly. That means don't do it for money or praise but do it for the right reasons. Rarely is anything created for commercial reasons and I say that in the context of anything created for money art. Create and don't worry whether what you are doing is art. Wasn't it Steichen that said art for arts sake is dead if it ever lived. Don't worry about whether to call your work art or not just create but you can pretty much bet if its obvious or only a factual document or a noun its probably not art. Now if you can show what the object or idea is/means to you, the photographer and also if we can see some of the photographer in the work then just maybe you might be getting close but leave that to history and the ones that judge those kinds of things.

Well said, Allen.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,888 views & 0 likes for this thread
Artist ???
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is drmogensen
803 guests, 233 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.