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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 22 Jan 2013 (Tuesday) 00:19
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Where do you think Canon 'missed the boat'?

 
KirkS518
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Jan 22, 2013 00:19 |  #1

We're all pretty much Canon groupies, with the Canon logo tattooed on our foreheads, but I'm wondering in what ways do you think Canon missed the proverbial boat.

For me, it's layout of buttons and controls. There is no real consistency from one camera to the next. I think they lose some customers in upgrades because of it. The layout between the rebel line, to the xxD line, to the xD line are so different in most cases, I think people who walk into a store to upgrade get scared off thinking they have to re-learn the layout, so they may stay in the same line (ie, Rebel to Rebel, vs. Rebel to xxD). I just moved from a XT to a 50D, and I feel like I'm lost. The learning curve seems huge.

I also wonder why DSLRs have 0 internal memory. I don't know about the other makes (Nikon, Sony, etc.), but it would seem useful to have some internal memory, even 528mb, just for those times you either forget or lose your card, or if you have a card malfunction. Just seems logical to me to have onboard memory.

So what's your nit with Canon?


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Fricks
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Jan 22, 2013 00:23 |  #2

There sensor. I love everything about canon. I love the colors it produces. I actually like the layout. The AF on the newer cameras are amazing. But when it comes to DR it's terrible compared to the dark side. If canon can get Sony to make them a sensor then I would be set for life :lol:




  
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rrblint
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Jan 22, 2013 00:36 as a reply to  @ Fricks's post |  #3

They dropped Eye Controlled AF with digital cameras...Hopefully this situation will be rectified in the 7D2.


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Andrushka
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Jan 22, 2013 00:43 |  #4

I think your nit picks here aren't specific to Canon - you would find that switching lines within any brand as far as I know. Also - no Canon DSLRs have ever had internal memory, so that one didn't exactly sneak up on you.

You can get great results with just about any modern DSLR from any brand. Or even with a film SLR for all it mattered. Many people buy into a system and that's it for a while, unless there is some earth shaking development. Every piece of new gear has some learning curve, that's just how it goes.


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HyperYagami
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Jan 22, 2013 00:47 |  #5

For people who shoot RAW (i.e. the majority), you might just as well call it done for the day with that little amount of internal memory and nothing else. Can easily fill that in less than 10 seconds.



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KirkS518
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Jan 22, 2013 01:09 as a reply to  @ HyperYagami's post |  #6

True, but something is better then nothing. When my $49 phone has 2 or 4 gb of internal memory (can't remember which), I would think it wouldn't take much to put a couple of gigs in a $2k camera though.

As for the other brands, I have no clue what they have or do... I've only used Canon for the last 30+ years (not including my 1952 Contaflex).


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Jan 22, 2013 02:31 as a reply to  @ KirkS518's post |  #7

They "missed the boat" when they had developed a sensor, which outclassed everything else, and then sat back and realized that whatever the competition does, we're on top.
The poor competitors, who also realized that Canon was calling in massive sales due to superior image quality, had to resort to secondary means, like equipping their cameras with a lot of cool features, in futile attempts to lure the high-shot photographers into buying their equipment. But it was only the beginners and amateurs who fell for that trick. Meanwhile, all available resources were spent on a better sensor generation.

Back on their cloud, Canon's management suddenly found that the competition could develop a sensor at least as good. Since Canon sold on their image quality, they didn't have to have top notch cool features on their cameras. They sold anyway. But now, all of a sudden, everybody else (read Nikon) could deliver cameras with just as good, or even better, image quality, and they already had a lot of cool features, by tradition.

All of a sudden, every camera seen at a major sports event wasn't any longer a Canon camera. Due to the massive amount of research and investment in production equipment necessary to bring a sensor to the next level, Canon is still recovering from this blow.


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EverydayGetaway
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Jan 22, 2013 02:47 |  #8

apersson850 wrote in post #15518750 (external link)
They "missed the boat" when they had developed a sensor, which outclassed everything else, and then sat back and realized that whatever the competition does, we're on top.
The poor competitors, who also realized that Canon was calling in massive sales due to superior image quality, had to resort to secondary means, like equipping their cameras with a lot of cool features, in futile attempts to lure the high-shot photographers into buying their equipment. But it was only the beginners and amateurs who fell for that trick. Meanwhile, all available resources were spent on a better sensor generation.

Back on their cloud, Canon's management suddenly found that the competition could develop a sensor at least as good. Since Canon sold on their image quality, they didn't have to have top notch cool features on their cameras. They sold anyway. But now, all of a sudden, everybody else (read Nikon) could deliver cameras with just as good, or even better, image quality, and they already had a lot of cool features, by tradition.

All of a sudden, every camera seen at a major sports event wasn't any longer a Canon camera. Due to the massive amount of research and investment in production equipment necessary to bring a sensor to the next level, Canon is still recovering from this blow.


^I think I've heard my dad (who has shot with Canon's professionally for 30+ years) say the same thing! I stick with Canon because they're huge lens selection and solid product base. They very clearly keep image quality as the #1 priority and all their cameras deliver on that.

I also love Canon's camera layouts... maybe I'm just weird, but I've literally never had a problem picking up one of their cameras and learning all the important controls in a matter of minutes without help, wether it be a Rebel or a 5DmkIII (Aside from it's AF selection system, that confused me, another reason I like the 6D). I can't say that about the Nikon's a few of my friends shoot with, they confuse the crap out of me...


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melcat
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Jan 22, 2013 03:00 |  #9

KirkS518 wrote in post #15518553 (external link)
We're all pretty much Canon groupies

I'm not.

...but I'm wondering in what ways do you think Canon missed the proverbial boat.

For me, it's layout of buttons and controls. There is no real consistency from one camera to the next. I think they lose some customers in upgrades because of it. The layout between the rebel line, to the xxD line, to the xD line are so different in most cases, I think people who walk into a store to upgrade get scared off thinking they have to re-learn the layout, so they may stay in the same line (ie, Rebel to Rebel, vs. Rebel to xxD).

I honestly wonder why anyone does this, at least more than once. I can understand testing the waters with a cheaper model before committing to the brand - I did it myself - but, apart from that, why don't people just buy what they need and can afford once? I suspect that, outside of forums like this, they mostly do. And that would be why Canon see no particular need to make the control layout consistent from one tier to another.

No way would they or should they alter the 1D* layout. It's been the same from the start. It makes sense to me as an ex manual focus 135/120 shooter in a way that the 5D/7D/60D system does not. So it should: it was designed by an actual designer. The other cameras look to me like they just "happened".

I suspect the control layout of each tier is designed to appeal to the target buyers.

I also wonder why DSLRs have 0 internal memory.

Enough people find the UI for selecting the card slot and deleting files confusing on those cameras with 2 slots. You would be adding that complexity to the 1 slot cameras for little benefit, and adding to it on the others. Even the extra icons on the LCD have a cost. One of the things I admire about Canon is the way they have, at least until recently, held the line against featuritis.




  
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Jan 22, 2013 03:07 |  #10

The new Pentax k30 is a weather sealed entry level camera. I think the build quality of lower level canon dslrs could be better and also those L lenses should be all weather sealed


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Ruggo
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Jan 22, 2013 03:08 |  #11

rrblint wrote in post #15518584 (external link)
They dropped Eye Controlled AF with digital cameras...Hopefully this situation will be rectified in the 7D2.

Agreed, loved it on my EOS 3. Also, as I'm a lazy bugger, I loved that Auto DOF ability on the EOS 3.




  
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melcat
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Jan 22, 2013 03:18 |  #12

jaomul wrote in post #15518781 (external link)
...also those L lenses should be all weather sealed

Yes! The 24mm f/2.8 TS-E Mk II, a recent lens most often used for landscapes, and not weather-sealed - madness. Don't tell me it can't be done, because I've seen the CV joint boots underneath my front wheel drive car.




  
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Sirrith
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Jan 22, 2013 04:24 |  #13

I think they used to place more emphasis on quality. Now it seems to be about cutting corners and skimping, and generally screwing the customer.

Weather sealing should be a given on any lens and body, not just some L lenses and the pro bodies.

I also dislike their recent focus on video, and on the ultra high end market; slow, boring, expensive, IS primes with mediocre build quality (except the 40 pancake which is cheap and lacks IS, but IMO meets the other specs I listed), or outrageously expensive "pro" lenses (200-400 anyone?) are pretty much the only releases/announcements of late.


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Jan 22, 2013 04:30 |  #14

Dynamic range. Nikon has a two whole stops advantage, that is massive. This is essential for landscape and architecture. I don't really care how much noise there is at ISO 12800, I care how much noise there is when I raise the shadows in a scene with high dynamics. Canon's got to stop prioritising engineering around low noise at high ISO and start focusing on dynamic range. Canon's dynamic range has not improved since the 5D2 was out.
Or Canon could just go to Sony and buy the same sensors Nikon is using...

Sirrith wrote in post #15518886 (external link)
I think they used to place more emphasis on quality. Now it seems to be about cutting corners and skimping, and generally screwing the customer.

They don't skimp on lens image quality or sensor image quality in low end models. Just on build quality. I'd argue this is the right compromise to make. Weather sealing and all these extras cost money, you can't get everything you want for a low price, but you want the most important thing which is quality images.


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Sirrith
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Jan 22, 2013 05:24 |  #15

Mornnb wrote in post #15518900 (external link)
They don't skimp on lens image quality or sensor image quality in low end models. Just on build quality. I'd argue this is the right compromise to make. Weather sealing and all these extras cost money, you can't get everything you want for a low price, but you want the most important thing which is quality images.

That is still my opinion, and this is yours.


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