What is the next step up from 400mm f/5.6?

I'm very happy with this lens except for the fact that it doesn't have IS and it has to be pretty bright outside because it's f/5.6. What would you consider to be a next step up for a faster lens? I really want at least 400mm and I'm afraid I'll have to put out a LOT of cash. Any ideas? Doesn't necessarily have to be a Canon.

Can't vouch for these lenses, but they do offer longer focal lengths and stabilization:
Sigma 120-400mm f4.5-5.6 OS - $950
Sigma 150-500mm f/5-6.3 OS - $1050
Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 OS - $1500

As far as I'm aware, there are no primes under $5000 that are at or over 400mm and have stabilization or a wider aperture, the only way Canon could make a better 400mm is if they added IS, or made a non-DO 400/4 for about half the price.

The Canon 100-400 for around $1600 would get you IS, but no additional reach and still f5.6 at the long end.

The Sigma 120-400 OS or 150-500 OS also would get you stabilization (some say it's better than Canon's IS)... but still f5.6 or f6.3 at the long end. They sell for $1000 and $1100 respectively.

None of the zooms will have quite as good IQ as your 400/5.6. Though the Sigma 120-300/2.8 OS might come close, even with 1.4X and/or 2X teleconverters. This would set you back about $3300-3600 US.

Another zoom that should rival the quality of primes is the upcoming Canon 200-400/4 IS 1.4X (built in teleconverter, to make it a 280-560/5.6 by flipping a lever)... no price has been set yet, but most are guesstimating it will be in the $11,000-$12,000 range.

The cheapest super tele prime longer than 400mm is the Sigma 500mm f4.5. It's $5000 US and doesn't have stabilization.

You might consider a used Canon 300/2.8 IS "Mark I" with teleconverters, it wouldn't be cheap, but will be a whole lot less than the price of a new one. It is one of Canon's best lenses ever and works very well with quality 1.4X and 2X teleconverters.

Canon 400/2.8 IS Mark II is two stops faster (and a whole lot bigger), has IS, and works very well with teleconverters, too. But also is $11,500. A used "Mark I" is still a superb lens, though big, might be found for somewhat less, but still won't be cheap.

Canon 400/4 IS DO is one stop faster, has IS, is a bit smaller... is currently selling for under $6000 US. I haven't used it, but supposedly the Diffractive Optics don't work well with teleconverters.

Canon 500/4 IS are smaller than the 400/2.8s, but not as small/light as the 400/4 DO. The 500/4 IS Mark II is $10,500. The 500/4 IS "Mark I" is still a great lens, might be found for a bit less used.

600/4... 800/5.6... well, you get the picture. Sigma also offered an 800/5.6 at one time... I don't know if they still do, but I don't think it ever had OS either.

without dropping big time money the only way to get faster is to go shorter...and then use a TC to make up any diference

sigma 120-300mm f2.8
or one of the older canon 300mm f2.8's...

another option could be the 300f4IS...with a 1.4TC you'd have a tiny bit more reach, but you'd also have IS...and you'd have the option of using it a stop faster 100mm shorter...and it's about equally priced to the 400mm

In my opinion, none of the lower-cost alternatives suggested here would be a step up from a 400/5.6. Either IQ and/or focusing performance, the features that make the 400 the great lens it is, would be degraded.

The next true step up from the 400/5.6 is going to be expensive.

tomj wrote in post #15521495
In my opinion, none of the lower-cost alternatives suggested here would be a step up from a 400/5.6. Either IQ and/or focusing performance, the features that make the 400 the great lens it is, would be degraded.

The next true step up from the 400/5.6 is going to be expensive.

^^^^this

The only alternative is lots of $$$$$$$$$

A "mid-priced" serious step up would be the 300mm f2.8L IS II along with both 1.4 and 2.0 extender III's. This would give you a very fast 300, a fast 420, and a reasonably fast 600 for about $7500.
The extenders don't degrade IQ or AF speed at all on this lens and the mode 3 IS is truly amazing. Plus it's much lighter than the other "super tele's".

I also have the 500mm f4 IS II which is spectacular but several thousand more than the setup above and its not as versatile since the 2.0 extender does degrade the IQ and it bumps the lens to f8. The 1.4, however, works wonderfly well on it.

Spring for the 300 with extenders and never look back!


OR...
Keep the lenses you have and get a body with better high ISO performance like the 1Dx or 5D mk3.
Everybody keeps forgetting that solution. I have shot indoor concerts with the 500 f4 at ISO 2000 without any issue. This still gave me insanely shallow DOF and high enough shutter speed to freeze the action at f4.
If the noise bothers you spend $100 for NIK or Neat and it goes away.

For me the next logical step up would be the Canon 500mm f4L.

chrisr09 wrote in post #15519628
I'm very happy with this lens except for the fact that it doesn't have IS and it has to be pretty bright outside because it's f/5.6. What would you consider to be a next step up for a faster lens? I really want at least 400mm and I'm afraid I'll have to put out a LOT of cash. Any ideas? Doesn't necessarily have to be a Canon.

As many have suggested if you want an improvement on your 400 F5.6 then it is going to cost! The problem is that the 400 F5.6 is a very good lens that doesn't cost too much. A camera body with higher ISO capabilities would certainly help but is also expensive.
Back in October I picked up a nice condition (used) Canon 300mm F2.8 L IS Mk1. I got it at a pretty good price 2101GBP (roughly $3000 US). This is one of Canon's (anybodies) sharpest longish telephotos (and allows heavy cropping), yes the Mk2 is better - but I don't think it is worth over twice the cost.
The advantages of the 300 F2.8 are the superb image quality it offers and the fact that it takes extenders VERY well. I use the Canon 1.4 Mk2 and 2 x Mk3 extenders and it produces excellent images with either (note the 2 x is a Mk3, I did not find the Mk2 as good).
I have compared the 300 F2.8 IS Mk1 + 2x Mk3 extender directly with my Canon 600mm F4 L IS Mk1 and no it is not as good - but is far from shabby in reasonable light and much more portable. Naturally it is better with the 1.4 extender and better still with no extender at all.
I would suggest you try the 300 before you decide, yes it will be second hand (but they are built to last), it is quite portable and it is the least ludicrously expensive route to go.
Good luck in you hunt!

I worked through this same question myself, and it seems like going "beyond" the 400 f/5.6 as a whole is going to demand a very large chunk of cash. Personally, I can't really justify $5000 or more for the amount that I would actually use that focal range, and even more so if I wasn't earning money with the lens.

yipDog Studios wrote in post #15521606
OR...
Keep the lenses you have and get a body with better high ISO performance like the 1Dx or 5D mk3.
Everybody keeps forgetting that solution. I have shot indoor concerts with the 500 f4 at ISO 2000 without any issue. This still gave me insanely shallow DOF and high enough shutter speed to freeze the action at f4.
If the noise bothers you spend $100 for NIK or Neat and it goes away.

Chris is currently using a 7D, so he or she is going to lose the 1.6x factor in the output by switching to full frame.

If Chris can wait, my suggestion would be to hold out for the next version of the 7D or 70D and hope there are improvements to ISO like yipDog suggested.

If waiting isn't an option, I would go with the 300 2.8 MI and extenders.

I am in a similar situation, but on full frame and need to go long. 300mm on full frame wasn't long enough for the subjects I was shooting. I am still deciding on the optimal lens to replace my 50D and 500mm setup, and that's the reason it is still around.

IMO buying a 300 to use a tc on it all the time isnt ideal..

Next step up in canon land from a 400/5.6 is BIG money regardless of TC use.
500/4.5L is probably the cheapest option or pick up one of the mk1 supers.

chrisr09 wrote in post #15519628
What is the next step up from 400mm f/5.6?

The next step in the upward direction is the Canon 500 f4 IS - the "old" one, that can be had for roughly $6000 USD, used.

In my opinion, anything less expensive would not be a step up from the 400 f5.6, but rather a step down, or in a very few cases, a step sideways.

500 f4 IS L.