A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

OHHHH BUT YOU WILL hahahahah

Aloha U

Ulysses01 wrote in post #16127441
It really depends upon the application. For example, I have the Einsteins and a couple of modifiers, along with the PocketWizard MC2 for it. Since the purchase, however, I've found it often really isn't the light for ME, at least not most of the time. Because of its bulk (relative to speedlights), I never feel like bringing it to wedding jobs, and I'm not really happy bringing it on portrait jobs either. As others have mentioned, if I had a fixed studio location I'd probably keep it. But all our work is done on location, so I find myself strongly disliking packing and lugging the Einsteins and associated gear around in favor of smaller Speedlights.

So the CL-360 setup gives me more of the lightweight/power crossover that I'm looking for, both for wedding work, as well as for portraits. At least that's my thinking for now. Still haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Ulysses01 wrote in post #16127441
It really depends upon the application. For example, I have the Einsteins and a couple of modifiers, along with the PocketWizard MC2 for it. Since the purchase, however, I've found it often really isn't the light for ME, at least not most of the time. Because of its bulk (relative to speedlights), I never feel like bringing it to wedding jobs, and I'm not really happy bringing it on portrait jobs either. As others have mentioned, if I had a fixed studio location I'd probably keep it. But all our work is done on location, so I find myself strongly disliking packing and lugging the Einsteins and associated gear around in favor of smaller Speedlights.

So the CL-360 setup gives me more of the lightweight/power crossover that I'm looking for, both for wedding work, as well as for portraits. At least that's my thinking for now. Still haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I understand your issue U. Do you plan to replace your speedlites or use them in addition to? I only ask because if you plan to use them as a replacement, not an addition, keep in mind the IR AF assist beam is an on or off thing. Not a pulse type like you are used to with your speedlites.

Though the pros easily outweigh that one con for most, but that one con is a killer for me at least. Because i want these to replace my 600's entirely.

U, I do all my work on location. Dragging stuff around is just part of the job.
My Einstein kit is four lights in a wheeled case, with cables, triggers, and reflectors.The VMLs are in an old camera bag. Stands, PLMs, other modifiers are in grip bags. My cheetah lights are also in a wheeled case with cables, triggers and batteries. Umbrella frame modifiers are in a grip bag.

I think you are getting the picture. All this is in my car, along with a grip bag full of odds and ends. And finally a wheeled case with lenses, speedlites etc. And a camera case with bodies, and lenses I selected for the job. Along with a couple of speedlites if they are going to be used.

The reason for the long description is to point out that each kit has a purpose for me, so I have them all available. What I've been doing lately is selecting the Cheetah Lights for setups where I used to use the Einsteins. The only time I've pulled out the Einsteins is for fashion shoots where I want to use my big PLMs as modifiers. For family and individual portraits I've been using the Cheetah Lights and umbrella frame modifiers.

That was one reason for the test in the park, wanting to confirm just how far I could push the Cheetah Lights. H mode is, for me, a really handy capability. Makes it so much easier to mix strobe and sunlight than ND filters. I like to use wide apertures so it helps there as well.

In your case, using Einsteins with ControlTL is semi-crippling the Einsteins.

On the other hand, 3 or 4 Cheetah Lights are a perfect portrait kit. Two along with a couple of speedlites are a great wedding kit.

I haven't had a chance to use them for any architectural work but I think they will be useful. Especially when Edward gets the mushroom perfected for color temp.

Osiriz wrote in post #16125290
Not too crazy.

I was originally set on buying a complete E640-kit, but after a few months of hard thinking, I realized that it was far more power (and bulk) than I would ever need.

I.M.O the CL-360 is probably the sweetspot in power + portability.

Here is a quick test shot I did with Manny to illustrate how the Cheetah Light, YN-622c trigger and Canon 600EX-RT speedlite can be combined to provide ETTL fill for the CL-360.

The 360 had the standard 5" reflector on and was about 5 feet from Manny. I put him in the shade and set the camera to 1/4000, ISO 100, F2.8 to seriously under expose the ambient. Sun was behind trees camera left and behind Manny's "shoulder".

360 was in H mode, 1/8 power. i.e. its lowest power setting in H mode. 600EX was in ETTL and I had to dial in -3 FEC on the flash and -1FEC on the camera to keep the 600EX from over powering the 360. Lightroom setting are all 0. I did apply my camera profile. The Adobe Canon 5DIII gave just a bit lower exposure setting. In this image the white square is 91% which is within the X-Rite range for proper exposure.

Naturally, if this were a portrait session I'd have the CL-360 in a soft box. And, with the ambient exposure closer to 0 the 600EX fill would probably not have to have so much FEC dialed in.

I'm getting the feeling that someone is going to ask me to put a CL-180 on the YN-622 to see if the AF assist works. Probably a useful test.

OK, just to satisfy a certain Boston wedding photographer's curiosity, I did a quick test with a CL-180 on a YN-622 on camera and a CL-360 with a YN-622 plugged in to trigger it on a stand.

They both had 5" reflectors on the 360 was at 1/64 power, the 180 at 1/32. So both were putting out the same light the stand was about 5 feet from Manny and the camera was about 7 feet. So not quite 1:3 ratio. Camera was set to ISO 200, 1/200 and F5.6. The YN-622 on camera provided AF assist light with half shutter press as expected.

I also tried the setup in H mode. That didn't work. My guess is that the single pin on the top of the YN-622 on camera caused a problem. When I plugged a cable into the PC connection and into the CL-180 on the camera it would fire in H mode but the off camera CL-360 with a YN-622 plugged in didn't fire. I have a suspicion that that has to do with the YN-622 configuration. I'll have to ask Clive.

So, if one were to want to put a CL-180 on camera, and it wasn't appreciably different than a 600EX-RT on the YN-622, this is a good way to do it.

Here is the result;

Can you use 622's on the camera and 360, with the Cheetah transmitter on top of the 622 to control powr and groups via camera?

No.
It's a great idea but the Cheetah CL-Tx does not have all the pins required for ETTL control
The Cells Iic has the pins but it has manual controls for groups and channels so there is not communication between it and the camera.

And, using the YN-622 with the Cheetah Lights as a trigger is via a cable connection so while one can turn groups on and off, there is no way to control power. That has to be accomplished via the CL-Tx.

Its about the same scenario as using a Cyber Commander to control Einsteins, with a separate trigger on the camera.

To make what you want to do work, Cheetah would have to implement Canon ETTL signaling all the way to the light. That's a significant engineering task. Not impossible just requires engineering.

Godox has ETTL capable speedlites in its product line, that implies that they have done the work to implement ETTL. So, the remaining task is to adapt that firmware and hardware into the Cheetah Light hardware.

I'd like that. When I was beta testing the MC2 for Buff and PW I kept asking about HSS and ETTL. PW already had a lot of the capabilities in the ControlTL stuff. They said it was too much work.

Now the Einstein, a great monolight, is being eclipsed by the Cheetah Light and others with H mode. How much longer until that capability is imbedded into a studio sized 600WS +) monolight? And how far behind is ETTL?

I know, from my experience with design engineers building network switches, that they love a challenge.

As with anything else, waiting for the perfect tool means one never has tools to get the job done.

Thanks for the insight. I had high hopes, but that does not deter me one bit. Excited to see my box of awsomeness arive.

Chad D wrote in post #16127564
OHHHH BUT YOU WILL hahahahah

Aloha U

Aloha, buddy! And here I thought I'd sneak in under the radar. Silly me.

You may be right. Let me put it this way: For now, at least, I have a couple of permanent tabs in my browser, one for CheetahStand.com and another for Elv's FlashHavoc.com site.

symbolphoto wrote in post #16127708
I understand your issue U. Do you plan to replace your speedlites or use them in addition to? I only ask because if you plan to use them as a replacement, not an addition, keep in mind the IR AF assist beam is an on or off thing. Not a pulse type like you are used to with your speedlites.

Though the pros easily outweigh that one con for most, but that one con is a killer for me at least. Because i want these to replace my 600's entirely.

Bingo! That's what I *want* from these, but I'm not sure I can actually get precisely what I want without significantly changing the way I want to work.

Here's where I'm at today: I don't really like lugging lights and stands around for weddings and portrait work. I'll do it when the venue requires it and IF it isn't a logistical problem for me to do so. I've been using the Nikon SB-900/910 lights on Cheetah stands and the PW FlexTT5, MiniTT1, and AC3 units for OCF work. I've lately found a nice grove with this setup as I continue to broaden my personal tolerance level (LOL) and improve my setup speed.

The pros of this setup are that I have a Nikon system I understand; I have plenty of support with the PWs; lightweight, quick and easy to set up; importantly, I can maintain an on-camera flash for fill in these large east coast venues. BUT the cons of what I'm currently using is the frequent unreliability of the PW system with the Nikon flashes, I believe due to the design of these Speedlights locking mechanism leaving too much play in the PW hot shoe; the sometimes poor recycle times especially when two of us re on the floor using the same lights; the short life of the batteries especially when two of us are shooting at the same time.

I would like to replace both the lights and the PWs with two or three of the CL-360 lights. But the main challenges I see at this point are the difficulty in using them simultaneously with an on-camera flash, and the lack of a true and aligned AF assist lamp. These aren't absolute deal breakers for me, but I'm feeling a bit as if I'm trying to force this square peg with rounded gently corners into a truly round hole, if you know what I mean. Using this system for portrait work would be easy and not a problem at all, but I'm primarily weddings at this point and that's where I see the challenges for what I'm currently doing with lighting.

I do NOT plan on getting rid of my Speedlights, but I see myself using them much less often if I can make the Cheetah Lights and associated triggers work for me without hassle.

dmward wrote in post #16127763
The reason for the long description is to point out that each kit has a purpose for me, so I have them all available...

In your case, using Einsteins with ControlTL is semi-crippling the

I agree! I gradually found out over time that I was actually using the Einsteins less and less for what WE need to do most often. I'm undecided at this point if I will sell the Einstein gear (that's what the wife wants) or if I'll hang onto it for the rare occasion where it would come in handy.

All our work is location work, too. I'm accustomed to traveling *super* light, even for our wedding work. I'm reluctant to change that approach, sacrificing other things in our shoots for the sake of gear. OTOH, I'd love to have gear that works the way *I* want to work.

I like the Cheetah Lights a lot, so I'm taking my time considering them and the trigger options. I don't want to "Einstein" this one.

Thx for the input on how the gear is working for your location work, BTW.

U,
get in touch with Jim Coleman. He just started a threat where he goes into detail, with pictures about how he uses the Cheetah Lights for his wedding work. The implication is that most of the time he's working without a flash on camera.

Also, since almost all of this work is done where the shutter speed is well below sync speed, using a PC to hot shoe connection to the CL-Tx is an easy solution. I know you said you don't like stuff hanging off your camera but that may be a less painful compromise than lugging the monolights around.

I'd forgotten you use Nikons, that makes all my comments relative to the YN-622 triggers suspect. I use Canon 5DIIIs.

I'll look for him. Thx!

Yeah, you're getting the right idea about my *really* not wanting to tie myself up with cables and brackets, etc. I'm weird that way. In fact, lately I'm looking to lighten my load, even looking into mirrorless bodies, rather than make my gear heavier or more complicated.

Your comment about how we're always waiting for the perfect gear resonates with me. Story. Of. My. Life.

How is Jim mounting the CL-TX to the camera?

The only other option I can suggest is to use a Phottix Strato II under you're on camera flash, to fire the Cheetah Lights, and keep the CL-TX in pocket to adjust power levels when needed.

This is a problem faced with a lot of systems at the moment, including the Canon 600EX-RT. You need to mount another transmitter somewhere to fire some manual lights as well (or use a pass through hotshoe).
.

dmward wrote in post #16122855
Here is how 2 CL-360s fit into a 90x90cm umbrella frame soft box. That's Elv's Phottix bracket holding them in place. And it makes tilting a breeze.

IMG NOTICE: [NOT AN IMAGE URL, NOT RENDERED INLINE]

This looks great thanks David. I'm sure there would be many times this power would come in handy, especially using the HSS mode.
.