A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

mmmfotografie wrote in post #16140727
I got HSS working but had to go back to standard channels to have the just introduced setting up to -4000 in the latest firmware. I am not a big user of HSS and rather stay under 1/250s and use a polarization or ND filter.

HSS is not very efficient and when I go to full power I have a flash duration of 1/300s which is enough to go to 1/8000s. In which you loose also a lot of emitted light because it is just bouncing of the shutter which is only opened by a fraction and moving over the sensor plane.

Hahahaha I don't see it as trolling but more as talk that is not contributing to the topic. I think the message has been received and hope it will be on-topic in the future.

Ok thanks. Yes HSS is a personal choice. But many people rely on it when they don't have time to work with filters. If you're opening the aperture a stop for every stop of shutter speed (for narrow depth of field) its only a stop behind an ND filter in light output (which is why the extra power of a CL-360 is great thing).

That poster is a constant troll, and ruins every thread where anyone responds to him. Go back 50 pages and you will see it here too, until he was banned (and unfortunately let back).

ZoranC wrote in post #16141472
I am bit confused with what you are saying as your link is pointing to use of YN622 _C_ for Canon. I still would love if Nikkor316 could share how exactly he went after it as him and I are having identical setup.

That would be an OOPS on my part because I linked to the wrong post. I corrected the my earlier post, but here it is again to save time.

elv wrote in post #16141706
Ok, outside HSS (H-mode) the Cells II, YN-622C and King Pro are all pretty fast triggers, its the CL-TX which is slow there. (The Cells II uses the CL-RX so that RX is not the problem).

With HSS (H-mode) on, and at higher shutter speeds, its the early pre-sync timing that matters. In that case only the Cells II is ahead so far. So YN-622C and King Pro are equally behind about 3/10ths.

But with a timing adjustment (like PocketWizard has) it may be possible to get even better results than the Cells II in H-mode.
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The thing to remember is that Godox engineers are able to fine tune the FP-sync signal to the CL-xxx H mode rapid cycling to optimize the result. i.e. they know how long it takes a canon shutter to travel across the sensor. They know the FP-sync signal pulse relative to the start of shutter travel. Thus they can adjust the timing for the signal to the flash to start pulsing.

PW ControlTL knows these timings vary and provide the user a means to adjust the lead time via firmare settings. Not rocket science, just good engineering.

dmward wrote in post #16141787
The thing to remember is that Godox engineers are able to fine tune the FP-sync signal to the CL-xxx H mode rapid cycling to optimize the result. i.e. they know how long it takes a canon shutter to travel across the sensor. They know the FP-sync signal pulse relative to the start of shutter travel. Thus they can adjust the timing for the signal to the flash to start pulsing.


PW ControlTL knows these timings vary and provide the user a means to adjust the lead time via firmare settings. Not rocket science, just good engineering.

PocketWizard actually have optimized FP HSS as well, with Canon and Nikon speedlights.

So that is cutting out any excess light pulses where possible when the shutter is closed.

We don't know if anything is changing the number of light pulses with the Cheetah Lights, but you get the impression that is fixed, and the only thing that is changing is the pre-sync timing.

It would be great to have an oscilloscope to see exactly what is going on, but playing with the sync timing should tell the story.


PocketWizard engineering has actually been very frustrating when it comes to this, their timing adjustment up until the current firmware could not even achieve the standard timing you could easily get with the "hack", or YN-622C/King/Odin etc. They seem to have managed to extend that now though with the latest firmware.

Being backwards compatible has really been a drawback with the PocketWizards in some ways (that's related to the pre-sync timing issue above as well). To this day complaints with the inconsistency of the ControlTL still go on. I really wish they would start a completely fresh line of 2.4GHz triggers.
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srikeerthi wrote in post #16141650
Thanks David and elv.

I was having trouble with the YN622C's that I have, where the center pin of the PC sync pin was pushing the socket of the YN622 inside.

Finally managed to plug it into one of the YN622C I had (only 1 of the 4 I have has a usable PC sync port now, gotta fix em soon) and the sync is working fine upto 1/8000.

Yep, had the same problem. It's an easy fix to restore function but no effective and permanent DIY solution springs to mind. Essentially, the insulator between centre contact and ring is a self-lubricating nylon cylinder running inside a plated metal tube. As such, there's always going to be the likelihood of it recurring. You could try a tiny spot of ethyl cyano-acrylate glue before pushing the sleeve back into it's case.

Like me, you obviously have at least one synch lead which is slightly too tight fit and overcomes the mechanical grip of the metal on the nylon. Mind you, in over 60 years, this is the only PC synch socket failure I've ever experienced personally so can't be too bad.

elv wrote in post #16141706
Ok, outside HSS (H-mode) the Cells II, YN-622C and King Pro are all pretty fast triggers, its the CL-TX which is slow there. (The Cells II uses the CL-RX so that RX is not the problem).

With HSS (H-mode) on, and at higher shutter speeds, its the early pre-sync timing that matters. In that case only the Cells II is ahead so far. So YN-622C and King Pro are equally behind about 3/10ths.

But with a timing adjustment (like PocketWizard has) it may be possible to get even better results than the Cells II in H-mode.
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Good to know.

Btw I just sent an e-mail to Godox asking them when the Cells II trigger will be available for 5D3. I'll post their answer here, if they respond.

elv wrote in post #16139425
There is no Pixel King Pro for Nikon yet, but I have tried the Canon King Pro with the CL-180 and 360, and they work fine in HSS (H-Mode), just the same as the YN-622C.

The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.
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The Cells II does provide about 3 tenths of a stop more light though.

Are you saying Cells II is as fast as cable? I'd really love to know this.

ZoranC wrote in post #16138883
You got HSS working with CL180 + D700 + PocketWizards? Could you please share your settings / setup as I couldn't achieve same with same gear.

I'll have to check on the computer when I get a chance and post the results of my PW firmware and ControlTL settings. Other than that, I tested both CL-180 and CL-360 connected to P2 on PW Flex TT5 (it cannot be connected via hotshoe only) fired by miniTT1. I had CL-Tx in bypass hotshoe of the TT1 to manually control cheetah light power. Without using HSS, I am able to use hypersync at all shutter speeds all the way to 1/8000th at 1:1 flash power. As soon as you go less than 1:1 power, you'll get the black band. At any flash power less than 1:1, you can enable H-mode on the flash (HSS) and fire up to 1/8000th shutter speed. The higher the shutter speed in H-mode, the less effective power/light output you get from the flash.

Nikkor316 wrote in post #16143110
As soon as you go less than 1:1 power, you'll get the black band. At any flash power less than 1:1, you can enable H-mode on the flash (HSS) and fire up to 1/8000th shutter speed. The higher the shutter speed in H-mode, the less effective power/light output you get from the flash.

Matt, I know you know this but to clarify for others reading the thread for information;
The reason for this is that at full power the flash duration of the CL-XXX is long enough to illuminate the subject throughout the shutter travel. (Most modern camera shutter seem to take 1/200th of a second or so to traverse the sensor.)

When the power is reduced from full power, the IGBT power circuitry shortens the flash duration. Thus the black bar on the image -- actually a shutter curtain shadow. With care and planning, ambient light can be used to illuminate the area of the image with the shadow. Some photographers hold the camera upside down to get the shadow in the sky to darken it.

H mode on the CL-XXX solves the problem by using the same rapid cycling technique used by Canon and Nikon to provide High Speed Sync. This approach uses the capacitor energy to fire the flash at about 50K Hrz for the length of the shutter travel. This means a reduction is illuminate for any specific part of the image. With the CL-XXX lights its about 1 EV less.
This means, using the Full Power M mode as the full power baseline, that H mode Full Power is 1/2 power relative to 1/1 M mode, 1/2 is 1/4 full etc. H mode power can be reduced to 1/8.

The result is significant flexibility for a photographer wanting to use the CL-XXX as a fill or main light outside, even on a sunny day.

dmward wrote in post #16143357
The result is significant flexibility for a photographer wanting to use the CL-XXX as a fill or main light outside, even on a sunny day.

And you can do so at 2-3x the distance of a Speedlight (for the same amount of illumination), correct?

Ulysses01 wrote in post #16143689
And you can do so at 2-3x the distance of a Speedlight (for the same amount of illumination), correct?

With the 180 the full power output is about 150Ws, the 360 is about 300 Ws. So yes, I'd say quite a bit farther.

Most people put a speedlite at about 50Ws. So we're talking 3 to 6 times the light output.

And that holds true or is even better at FP sync speeds since the speedlite HSS fall off is generally greater than 1 EV.

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #16141771
That would be an OOPS on my part because I linked to the wrong post. I corrected the my earlier post, but here it is again to save time.

Thank you!

Nikkor316 wrote in post #16143110
I'll have to check on the computer when I get a chance and post the results of my PW firmware and ControlTL settings.

Thank you in advance!

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #16140752
The following images show an option for mounting the FlexTT5 to the SpeedPro Bracket. I just placed an order for this right-angle cable from a seller on steal-bay to replace the straight cable. It should make it less prone to accidental breakage.

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I like to use the Manfrotto 143S Flash Shoe attachment which now have standard the hole for the locking pin that comes out of the flash foot when tightening the ring by turning on the Pocket Wizards. Be sure that it has the locking hole and if not you can drill easily because it is just plastic.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_143S_Flash_Sho​e_for.html

During a shoot yesterday evening my light stand fell over and with my AD360 on top with the little octa on it. On inspection the first impact was on the octa which rotated the head and opened the side of the AD360 and the second impact was on the power connection.

This morning I got my tools and opened up the AD360 and pushed the pivot of the head back and noticed that a small plastic screw holder was split open. I clicked the front cover back and put the screws back in. I think the little screw holder replaceable so designed to give on impact just like the metal plate in the flash shoe.

Now I took of the the metal plate from the foot and tapped the little bent out of it and put it back.

The AD360 is really built as a tank and the head is turning as nothing happened and so it works perfectly again.

Sadly the upper part of the power pack is not that sturdy and the bit that locks the latch from the lower part broke away and I have to look for for the outer shells of for the upper part. For now bit of tape have to keep the lower part of the power pack in place.

I am really impressed by the build quality of the flash and a little less of the upper latch bit of the power pack.

I was very lucky that none of the damage was fatal and the I have tent cords to fixate the light stand and I wont make the same mistake again when putting the flash up high without the lines or sandbag.