A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

Hey now, i never called your HSS dementia worthless

And the Gauls, you're the one who started me on this side-track!

jcolman wrote in post #16165291
I could easily give you multiple instances where I am adjusting power levels during a shoot, especially a wedding. But if you can't think of one, then you don't need these lights.

Oh I dont shoot weddings. My lights now how the power adjustment feature...... I just never use it.

Gaarryy wrote in post #16165399
Unless I'm too lazy when I'm setting things up. But to be honest for what I do, it's not a big deal. same thing when they are talking about weight, as in transporting the lights. It could be another 10 lbs and I would get used to it and just deal with it.

I am in the same boat as you. The heaviest bag always seems to be the camera bag, so anything less than that is not a big deal.

sigma pi wrote in post #16166668
I am in the same boat as you. The heaviest bag always seems to be the camera bag, so anything less than that is not a big deal.

That's what they make folding carts for.

I learned a long time ago that, when on location, the worst place for a piece of gear is on a shelf in the studio. It seems that every job requires some ingenuity, even when starting with a fill kit bag. That's part of what makes it fun.

dmward wrote in post #16165298
Sig, two examples come immediately to mind;
A) I have the lighting scheme setup with two lights on the background to make it white, one light for main and another for fill. I set the main and fill for 1:2 ratio.

Next outfit is white, I take the first shot and its too flat, take out cyber commander and click the fill down 5 clicks (1/2 stop) decide the background needs to be a bit brighter for separation so I select group C (two background lights) click them up 3 clicks (1/3 stop) take a test shot. Just what I want.

Total time, about 30 seconds without leaving the camera position, without having to lower the fill light or without having to go to both the background lights.

How do you get a white BG brighter? I thought it was white, so why touch it?
How does the ratio get affected by an outfit? Was it flat before the new outfit?

This hypothetical is confusing.

ND filter is faster and easier.

If you have a big enough job that you have AD, then you can have assistants.


This is off topic though at this point. Some people like it some people could care less.

Can we circle back to price?

dmward wrote in post #16166699
That's what they make folding carts for.

I learned a long time ago that, when on location, the worst place for a piece of gear is on a shelf in the studio. It seems that every job requires some ingenuity, even when starting with a fill kit bag. That's part of what makes it fun.

Yup. Bring anything and everything and if you dont use it, just leave it in the car. If you need it, make a quick run to the car.

Cheetah needs to get a folding cart for photography.

sigma pi wrote in post #16166877
How do you get a white BG brighter? I thought it was white, so why touch it?
How does the ratio get affected by an outfit? Was it flat before the new outfit?

This hypothetical is confusing.

ND filter is faster and easier.

If you have a big enough job that you have AD, then you can have assistants.


This is off topic though at this point. Some people like it some people could care less.

Can we circle back to price?

White backgrounds can be grey, light grey, white, bright white and blown out. All depending on how much light you put on it.

I have 10 lenses. Not all of them are the same diameter. I don't really want to buy 10 different ND filters, in various strengths, when you can do the same job, as David suggests, simply by reducing the power of your lights.

All this argument is rather pointless if you don't need to adjust the power of your lights, from the camera position. Many of us like, and use, this feature daily. That's why we bought these lights.

Like David, I also own two other complete lighting setups, but the Cheetah lights have relegated most of of my other lights to the back burner.

Careful with examples - 10 lenses doesn't mean 10 ND filters. You probably have 3-4 diameters. And normally would be fine with a single diameter of ND filter.

pwm2 wrote in post #16167068
Careful with examples - 10 lenses doesn't mean 10 ND filters. You probably have 3-4 diameters. And normally would be fine with a single diameter of ND filter.

That is true. But I still say that it's easier, and cheaper, to be able to fine tune my exposures by varying my lighting output than it is to slap on a .9 or .6 or .3 ND filter.

I'm not going to try to capture all the various quotes and as Sig said we should get back on topic.
The ND filters, which I have do require adapter rings and all that is a hassle. But available if required.
Changing lighting scheme during a shoot is often something required and easier, for me, via a remote now that I have lighting gear that supports remote power adjustment.

The example may have been confusing, but if you are using remotes it would probably strike a cord with your experience. As an aside for Sig, when I shoot on white for catalog etc. I try to get the ratio between background and subject such that the background is not blown out in the raw file. That give me many more options. It also means I can control the wrap from the background to the subject much more easily.

What about price? Every lighting kit has an initial purchase price. There are other factors as well that contribute to total cost of ownership. Would I buy an Einstein rather than a Cheetah based on cost. No. They are two different lights with different capabilities. If I need modeling lights then Cheetah is a no go. If I want something I can carry around with me all day on a wedding that also puts out 300 Ws, then an AB, VML is a less desirable than a Cheetah 360.

Professional photographers have multiple lenses, multiple camera bodies, multiple light stands, tripods, etc. Not sure why there seems to be such concern about multiple lighting kits.

when I shot architecture stuff I so wish I had remote power lights !
doing weddings a huge plus IMHO
doing portraits on location a huge help when you are doing a few locations with a family etc. going from the playground to under the tree to out in the grass

in a studio or a fixed set I cant see it being a huge thing but I say why not

do I need it NOPE dont have it on my photogenic gear but then again I am from the days before auto focus and that is not a feature I want to be with out anymore

anything to make my life easier and also make me look smoother in front of clients is that much better
as far as the cheetah vs alien bees and price ? who cares two dif products
compare cheetah to QTM is a better comparison
compare Einstein to eli is a more equal

asking to compare Einstein to cheetah is a bit like comparing a zoom to a prime ?


I used circ pol on all my lens and had one for each one changing is a hassle and it kept the salt spray off the front element (I am from Maui) now on the mainland I dont use them as much ? I did not use them for the sky but for the glare on the beach but the fact is when I am switching a lens I hate switching filters big time so if its something I might swap around some I will want one for each lens I plan on shooting with thats just me though

Chad D wrote in post #16167244
as far as the cheetah vs alien bees and price ? who cares two dif products
compare cheetah to QTM is a better comparison
compare Einstein to eli is a more equal

As Sigma Pi said: "Can we circle back to price?" ...thats where its at - forget features.

Cheetah don't do on camera or off camera TTL flash in any configuration, not even auto or automatic focus assist or have a coherent radio control system linking camera to flash like QTM does - although you can sure think up multiple ways of (maybe) making these things work by mixing third party systems along with two Cheetah versions of radios as the last... what(?).. 30 pages have been concerned with and those solutions only sometimes work.

Nobody would buy a Speedlight without those TTL, auto, automatic focus assist or coherent camera interfaces.. so why do it now? You get only what you pay for.. and thats less.

You will note how the AB Einstein evangelists of days of yore.. are quick to switch allegiance from their 'best' setup ever.. to the "new barebulb flash" whilst all along, a pedigree barebulb flash existed, exists and still out performs today. That doesn't say much about their advice and enthusiasm for their previous 'solutions' does it?

PhotographersWorldWide wrote in post #16167477
As Sigma Pi said: "Can we circle back to price?" ...thats where its at - forget features.

Cheetah don't do on camera or off camera TTL flash in any configuration, not even auto or automatic focus assist or have a coherent radio control system linking camera to flash like QTM does - although you can sure think up multiple ways of (maybe) making these things work by mixing third party systems along with two Cheetah versions of radios as the last... what(?).. 30 pages have been concerned with and those solutions only sometimes work.

Nobody would buy a Speedlight without those TTL, auto, automatic focus assist or coherent camera interfaces.. so why do it now? You get only what you pay for.. and thats less.

You will note how the AB Einstein evangelists of days of yore.. are quick to switch allegiance from their 'best' setup ever.. to the "new barebulb flash" whilst all along, a pedigree barebulb flash existed, exists and still out performs today. That doesn't say much about their advice and enthusiasm for their previous 'solutions' does it?

I would have to disagree. I have used several different types of equipment over the years. I own lots of Nikon TTL flashes that are only used in manual mode (very expensive manual flashes). Although I used to use TTL all the time, I now prefer to not use TTL so that I am completely in control of the lighting. In fact I don't use anything in "Auto" mode as I prefer FULL MANUAL / FULL CONTROL. I also use AB, WL, and Einstein all in full manual, same as I do for my Nikon flashes and Cheetah lights. The LumoPro LP-180 is also a very nice flash system that is manual not TTL. I have also used QTM flashes (well before the new CL) and although I really liked the quality of light they produced, I found their whole system and UI to be not very user friendly. What I like best about the Cheetah Lights is the simplicity of it all. They are extremely user friendly, portable and everything I ever wanted out of my QTM system. I find myself using them over all of my other lighting kits for on location work and they haven't failed me yet. This is just my $0.02 FWIW.

Who's got the popcorn?