A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

RileyNZL wrote in post #16382339
Hey guys, sorry if this has already been answered, but what is the difference between Godox and Cheetah? Is Cheetah just rebadging and reselling goddex products, and if so is there any difference at all between the Godox and Cheetah products?

Lastly, anyone know if there is a retailer selling these in New Zealand, or even Australia?

As just answered by MMMfotografie, with a little rider. Rebranding, something I personally dislike, is frequently done simply to ensure that if a product is returned for service, that product actually was originally supplied by the company being asked to service/replace/refund​. Unfortunately, this is a result of a very small minority of less-than-honest buyers purchasing from a cheap, online supplier and then going to the official distributor in their country if they have a problem. This places an unwarranted burden on that distributor, something for which they have received no income suddenly becomes a cost to their business.

Edward Tang (CheetahStand) has always been totally transparent about branding of the Cheetah CL180/360 and has stated many times, unequivocally, that his product is pure Godox. Unfortunately, this rebranding is used by certain other companies (no names, no pack drill) merely to obscure the origins of the product.

CheetahStand are probably the most pro-active resellers of this system. As such, and because they serve the largest single market outside the Far East, it is highly probable that Edward will have the latest revision of any item which has been upgraded - indeed, Edward has been responsible for a number of modifications as a result of customer feedback (quite a lot of it on POTN). Eventually, these mods will filter down to smaller countries like NZ & UK and distributors there. Unfortunately, Godox themselves are a little 'reluctant' to indicate when mods have been done so those of us outside the USA are left wondering such things as "Is this AD-S17 mushroom the colour corrected version or the original?". We have no direct way of determining this.

NZ/AU retailers? Nope, can't help you with that - you're quite a long way from me
If you are unsuccessful in finding someone local, and if you can't persuade Edward to ship to NZ (beware, the USPS shipping charges aren't nice) here's a little information I gleaned DIRECT from Godox Sales Department.

Internet resellers, specifically eBay resellers, who are acknowledged by Godox themselves as "our resellers" (that was the exact phrase which Godox used) include:

• GodoxStudio (no direct connection with the manufacturers, as far as I can determine).
  
• GoodBoy Studio.
  
• DZone2 (who also have an AU-dedicated 'shop' DZone2AU). These are established High Street retailers with a shop in downtown Hong Kong on Nathan Raod
  
• ucolor
  
• Link-Delight (also with a dedicated AU online outlet)
  

Whortleberry wrote in post #16382416
Unfortunately, this rebranding is used by certain other companies (no names, no pack drill) merely to obscure the origins of the product.

And who sometimes even "upgrades" (sticker-trim) a flash to 400, to beat the competition.

RileyNZL wrote in post #16382339
Hey guys, sorry if this has already been answered, but what is the difference between godex and cheetah? Is Cheetah just rebadging and reselling goddex products, and if so is there any difference at all between the goddex and cheetah products?

Lastly, anyone know if there is a retailer selling these in New Zealand, or even Australia?

I think Cheetah will ship to Australia. Just drop Edward an email and he will let you know shipping etc.

I think there is an Ebay seller located in Sydney too.
.

elv wrote in post #16382443
I think Cheetah will ship to Australia. Just drop Edward an email and he will let you know shipping etc.

I think there is an Ebay seller located in Sydney too.
.

Although I didn't buy my 360s from the Sydney based ebayer, I have bought other gear from him a few times now and been very happy with his speedy shipping and support, his prices are cheaper than others for the 360 too. I have also purchased some gear from Cheetah and goodboy, all 3 have been pleasant to deal with and fast to respond and eager to offer support for us in AU.

pwm2 wrote in post #16382423
And who sometimes even "upgrades" (sticker-trim) a flash to 400, to beat the competition.

So......that'd be one of those no-names, no-pack-drill companies I mentioned?
I can't decide which is the most insulting:

• attempting to hide the true origin of a product simply for so-called exclusivity purposes.
  
• exaggerating power by labelling to say "Ours is better than yours", when the only difference is the label.
  
• rebranding just to hike the price above the competition. Market differentiation is necessary, pure price-hikes are not (at least, not for the buyer!).
  
• thinking that in a specialist market like this, we are too stooopid to make comparisons. It's unforgivable but perhaps understandable in consumer marketing where the consumer often exhibits exactly that degree of stupidty, but in something pitched at an informed buyer it's just downright offensive.
  

1. Rebranded to identify as 'Originally supplied by CheetahStand'. This protects the distributor from unscrupulous, spurious claims.
   
2. The CL-180 is forced by the manufacturer, to change it would place the product at a market disadvantage relative to the same product with added lies.
   
3. Manufacturer clearly specified. Remember the 1959 NASA document entitled "Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation"?
   
4. True, metered-in-the-field output not some inflated reading obtained by testing in a highly reflective enclosed area specifically designed to give unrealistic readings.
   
5. GN and coverage specified with normal working conditions, not some inflated figure derived from a zoomed reflector.
   

Whortleberry wrote in post #16382494
So......that'd be one of those no-names, no-pack-drill companies I mentioned?
I can't decide which is the most insulting:
.....

[/LIST]INTEGRITY in advertising and marketing really doesn't go amiss!

INTEGRITY in product design doesn't go amiss either and the lack of that started waaaay back with the manufacturer. Allowing rebranding in the first place is a bit weird too its all the same product with the same issues and same specification. Nomenclature of a product doesn't disguise specification as anybody who has followed flash 'upgrades' would know - increasing model numbers alluding to greater output is never always the case.

Whilst I note from your earlier post that Edward might have the most up-to-date versions of these flashes.. does that mean the older out-of-date flashes he supplied i.e. not V1, V2.. whatever etc.. might be subject to upgrade? I doubt this but I'm sure I would hate to be one of those early adopters and have one of the prototypes of the bunch. Suffice it to say that it is likely that the most recent deliveries to distributors will be the most up to date versions and there fails to be any upgrade route of any sort for any distributor. The manufacturer has happily displaced themselves from any responsibility to the customer.

I read the requests here to include features which are lacking - for a cohesive focus assist, integrated TTL and radio system and even manufacturer level identification. This, and these are already freely available from one alternative supplier, but evidently, thats not wanted.... So why is it wanted of a product which doesn't provide this?

Godox is allowing this rebranding of their product.. indeed possibly even providing this rebranding for its distributors too. I don't understand why this should need to occur other than to place some distance between OEM and customer. The need for any rebranding to service faulty units is pretty artificial since its very easy to identify sales via serial numbers.

What distributors do to sell 'their' version is up to them. Ultimately, faults will be dealt with by Godox but having the same products available under different disguises leads only to price competition for sales.. (and some interesting in-fighting it seems) ..those that sell cheapest get the business and I'm intrigued by the scaremongering in this respect when reliable suppliers like Calumet are amongst the distributors, and who probably buy the greatest quantities and are most likely have greater access to the latest versions if needed.

If you weren't so busy disliking these flashses and complaining, you would notice that there are things people like very much with these flashes. And they then either say "I wish brand xx could be more like these flashes when it comes to xxx" or they might say "I like them very much - but they would be even better if ..."

There are no product that can be best for everyone. And there are no product that can't be improved.

pwm2 wrote in post #16383226
If you weren't so busy disliking these flashses and complaining, you would notice that there are things people like very much with these flashes. And they then either say "I wish brand xx could be more like these flashes when it comes to xxx" or they might say "I like them very much - but they would be even better if ..."

I don't dislike these flashes, they have some advantages but they're just limited in specification when it comes to market alternatives. I see that people buy them and then wish for features which they don't have - to be added - or are hoping that some day they will be (!) Not only that, but that they should be bought only from a particular supplier to obtain all their benefits (!)

It is not me requesting these features, to me it was obvious they weren't there in the first place and those features would genuinely be missed in general use.

PhotographersWorldWide wrote in post #16383293
I don't dislike these flashes, they have some advantages but they're just limited in specification when it comes to market alternatives. I see that people buy them and then wish for features which they don't have - to be added - or are hoping that some day they will be (!) Not only that, but that they should be bought only from a particular supplier to obtain all their benefits (!)

It is not me requesting these features, to me it was obvious they weren't there in the first place and those features would genuinely be missed in general use.

Well, cars are sold with manual gear box.
Cars are sold with auto gear box.
Cars are sold with dual-clutch paddle-controlled gear box.

What you constantly fail to realize is that not everyone wants the same thing as you. And that keeps you constantly confused.

Why doesn't you just play with your Calumet gear?

Rebranding, private labeling, whatever one chooses to call it is common in many industries.
There is nothing wrong with the concept. As I mentioned earlier, most private label products are designed and manufactured by companies that have good engineering and manufacturing capabilities but have not invested to develop a worldwide distribution, marketing and sales capability.

Edward and Calumet are the only two going about this properly. They are putting their name on the product and making a commitment to their customers to support the product as their own. I think Lens Carta in the UK is doing the same thing.

Others are just buying the product with manufacturer brand and reselling without, necessarily, putting the warranty and other distribution elements in place. i.e. forward warehousing, spare and accessory parts, etc.

Godox is apparently trying to maintain the integrity of the product with updates and a firm pricing policy among distributors to forestall detrimental price competition.

The reality is that we, as consumers are not likely to have much influence over Godox distribution strategy.

pwm2 wrote in post #16383349
Well, cars are sold with manual gear box.
Cars are sold with auto gear box.
Cars are sold with dual-clutch paddle-controlled gear box.

You have obviously missed the point. In your comparison the 'Godox/Cheetah/Wistro/​Neewer/Genesis" versions would be the one lacking the gear box.

pwm2 wrote in post #16383349
Well, cars are sold with manual gear box.
Cars are sold with auto gear box.
Cars are sold with dual-clutch paddle-controlled gear box.

What you constantly fail to realize is that not everyone wants the same thing as you. And that keeps you constantly confused.

Why doesn't you just play with your Calumet gear?

There are alternative suggestions which could be made!

dmward wrote in post #16383398
Rebranding, private labeling, whatever one chooses to call it is common in many industries.
There is nothing wrong with the concept. As I mentioned earlier, most private label products are designed and manufactured by companies that have good engineering and manufacturing capabilities but have not invested to develop a worldwide distribution, marketing and sales capability.

Edward and Calumet are the only two going about this properly. They are putting their name on the product and making a commitment to their customers to support the product as their own. I think Lencarta in the UK is doing the same thing.

Yes, Lencarta supports the product in a fully professional manner. However, the UK is a tiny market in global terms and there cannot be the level of user feedback which Edward receives. Hence CheetahStand is/are in a much more powerful position to promote change and/or the introduction of further products. And the rest of the world follows in due course.

I had an engagement session today and decided for the first time since I got these flashes to not bring my Einstein with me. As I described in my earlier posts I've had various issues, mainly cable related and possibly a bad CL-180 since I've gotten these so I really haven't been able to get to a point where I fully trust these.

Today, knowing that my CL-360's are fine and the sole remaining cable is also fine, I brought only the CL-360 with me. Well, I had a 600EX mounted on the hot shoe of my 5D3, but that doesn't really count.

The single biggest reason I got these flashes was for the portability and in this respect, it didn't disappoint. The shoot was for 2 hours and it was run and gun style. Had I done this with my Einstein, my shoulder would be hurting right now. With the CL-360, it was a cinch.

What took me off guard was shooting in high sync mode. Now let me just say, I did NOT read the manual. I mean, the flash is easy enough to use that I never needed to refer to it. Well, apparently, there's a shot limit in high sync mode. On average, I was shooting at 1/2 power and at this power level, you can only fire off 15 shots until the flash goes in heat protection mode. This of course is laid all out in the manual...you know...the thing I didn't read. Anyways, I worked around this of course, but man, it was frustrating!

In retrospect, I should have used ND filters to keep the shutter speed under the sync limit and to be able to use the desired aperture. The biggest difference is at 1/1 power, I can fire off 75 shots before it goes into heat protection mode. MUCH better than 15 shots.

Lesson learned...

nicksan wrote in post #16383754
What took me off guard was shooting in high sync mode. Now let me just say, I did NOT read the manual. I mean, the flash is easy enough to use that I never needed to refer to it. Well, apparently, there's a shot limit in high sync mode. On average, I was shooting at 1/2 power and at this power level, you can only fire off 15 shots until the flash goes in heat protection mode. This of course is laid all out in the manual...you know...the thing I didn't read. Anyways, I worked around this of course, but man, it was frustrating!

In retrospect, I should have used ND filters to keep the shutter speed under the sync limit and to be able to use the desired aperture. The biggest difference is at 1/1 power, I can fire off 75 shots before it goes into heat protection mode. MUCH better than 15 shots.

Lesson learned...

There is a good trick here to know, provided you can shoot at full power, just leave H mode off, and you can still fire to 1/8000th. Because its basically doing Hypersync instead. You get the full 75 shots then.

At lower power levels you need to use the H mode, or most of the frame will have shutter in it.
.

elv wrote in post #16383900
There is a good trick here to know, provided you can shoot at full power, just leave H mode off, and you can still fire to 1/8000th. Because its basically doing Hypersync instead. You get the full 75 shots then.

At lower power levels you need to use the H mode, or most of the frame will have shutter in it.
.

Interesting. Gotta test this out. Recycle time at full power isn't the greatest. I need to get that 2 to 1 cable to cut down on that.