A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

idkdc wrote in post #17953531
Holy hell, you can combine two into one "remote" head for 1200Ws, and it has an AC pack coming. Wth. Can it really do 1200 Ws at HSS?

Where did that information come from?
Its certainly possible to put two AD600 remote heads into a modifier to get the 1200Ws with TTL but it would require two bodies as well. Each with its own battery.

dmward wrote in post #17953554
Where did that information come from?
Its certainly possible to put two AD600 remote heads into a modifier to get the 1200Ws with TTL but it would require two bodies as well. Each with its own battery.

Elv's page: http://flashhavoc.com …tro-ttl-strobe-announced/

Well, ****, I might one of these...or two or four. Holy hell.

Is recycle time decent? And with HSS?

idkdc wrote in post #17953531
Holy hell, you can combine two into one "remote" head for 1200Ws, and it has an AC pack coming. Wth. Can it really do 1200 Ws at HSS?

You can buy the 2 to 1 cable and run it in to 2 600 packs and use the remote head with the 1200ws bulb. True ws 1050.

abbadon31 wrote in post #17953623
You can buy the 2 to 1 cable and run it in to 2 600 packs and use the remote head with the 1200ws bulb. True ws 1050.

Do they maintain both TTL and HSS functionality? At the same time? Wowza. Is the true Ws 525 per pack?

Ulysses01 wrote in post #17953273
Thanks for the elaboration and clarification. I know it's challenging in a group of so many to explain in detail so we're all at least on the same page of discussion.

Unfortunately, it seems there is an inclination to create terms and then give them imprecise definitions in an attempt to explain the various options available for firing an xeon tube flash with a modern focal plane shutter camera.

Here are the facts, without made up terms:
Modern cameras have two sync options;
1) X which refers to the trigger pulse that is timed to occur just after the first curtain has completely opened.
2) FP which refers to the trigger pulse that is timed to occur slightly before the first curtain begins to open.

* X sync timing ensures that the shutter curtains do not obscure the image plane when the trigger initiates the xeon tube burn.
* FP sync was originally intended to trigger the ignition of a flat burn flash bulb that had a constant luminosity through out the time required for the focal plane shutter slit to travel across the image plane.
* Camera manufacturers found that by using IGBT power control circuits they could simulate the flat burn flash bulb by rapidly pulsing a fire signal to the flash tube. The capability was productized as High Speed Sync (HSS).
* Implementing HSS required an ability for the speedlite and camera to communicate intentions. Without a special signal from the speedlite that it is set to deliver the HSS flat pulsed output the camera locks it shutter maximum speed to the x sync speed. When the speedlite is set to HSS it signals the camera which permits the shutter speed to be set above x sync. There is also communication between the camera and the speedlite to make sure the speedlite uses the flat pulsed output when the shutter speed is set beyond x sync and regular IGBT controlled output at and below x sync.

Electronic flash units use one of two methods to control power sent from the capacitor to the flash tube to cause the flash;
1) Voltage controlled power uses the fullness of the capacitor to control output. At full power the capacitor is at its maximum charge. At half power it is half full, etc. That why photographers were told to "dump" the capacitor when changing power setting on a strobe. Since lower voltage in the capacitor means less pressure on the flash tube the output curve is longer from initiation until t.1 when 90% of the capacitor charge is expended.
2) IGBT (Isolated-gate bipolar transistor) power control is accomplished by opening the circuit between the capacitor and the flash tube when the desired light output has been reached. This technology was initially implemented in speedlites to conserve capacitor charge and reduce recycle times. It also makes TTL flash metering practical. It is also the basis for the rapid pulsing of the tube output required for HSS. For strobes it means that for all power settings below full power the t.1 flash duration gets shorter.

Two ways to signal flash triggering related to shutter opening. Two ways to control power. Two ways to shape flash tube output.

Here are the options available to engineers;
1) x sync timing and voltage controlled power.
2) x sync timing and IGBT controlled power.
3) FP sync timing and voltage controlled power.
4) FP sync timing and IGBT controlled power delivering pulsed output.

One and two are what we all know as x sync flash, either with strobes or speedlites. Firing can be accomplished with only the x sync pin connection between the camera and flash.

Three was first offered by Pocket Wizard with its ControlTL triggers. They branded it as "Hypersync". Other companies have branded it "Super Sync" or other names. The key is that the camera and trigger system have to be able to communicate the FP sync signals. That requires control pin connections on the hotshoe which means the trigger has to be able to communicate with the camera using the camera manufacturer's TTL signaling protocols.

Four was first implemented by camera manufacturers as a proprietary capability for offering High Speed Sync (Canon) FP sync (Nikon) to supplement TTL flash metering. Other manufacturers have implemented a IGBT controlled pulsed output that is not controlled by the camera communicating with the flash. Its most often referred to as H mode. Its an arbitrary rapid pulsed output for a sufficient length of time to ensure reasonably smooth illumination during the time the shutter curtains are traveling across the image plane. Implementing H mode requires that the flash receives an FP sync signal to start the pulsed output before the front curtain begins travel.
Since the trigger is sending the FP sync to the camera, its possible for the timing to be modified from a default. Some trigger manufacturers offer an ability to adjust the timing to help optimize lighting performance with a specific camera light combination.

That's how it works regardless of the terms companies or photographers may use attempting to describe the capability.

Nice to see you second guessing. I want to keep it basic and you can drag every technical variation into the picture but that just fog it up again.

There are two kinds of flashes and three moments of triggering. That is all one needs to understand as basics, when that has landed, one can use extra technical variations to ones advantage.

mmmfotografie wrote in post #17953778
...There are two kinds of flashes and three moments of triggering. That is all one needs to understand as basics, when that has landed, one can use technical variations to ones advantage.

That's what I said, except that there are TWO triggering options X and FP sync. Not sure what a "moment" of triggering is relative to sync signal. I know that some trigger manufacturers have a means of altering the timing from the camera default for FP sync to something else.

Any fog you may be experiencing is from all the "custom terms" being thrown around in an attempt to "personalize" the capabilities as implemented by the manufacturers.

The objective for my post was to distill the technical information into a clear outline, free from any productization, marketing or "made up" terms. With that information available I expect that those reading this thread and others related to the options available for triggering electronic fresh units with a modern digital camera directly or via a trigger will be able to wade through the vernacular and get to the deliverable capabilities of the hardware.

idkdc wrote in post #17953531
Holy hell, you can combine two into one "remote" head for 1200Ws, and it has an AC pack coming. Wth. Can it really do 1200 Ws at HSS?

Kind of.
To get 1200ws with HSS, the bitube head has two flash tubes and two cables.
You plug two packs into the head, and each pack drives a single tube at 600ws for a combined 1200ws


Think of it as two remote flash heads, merged into one mount....


It wont be a true 1200ws either, but pretty close

Echo63 wrote in post #17954007
Kind of.
To get 1200ws with HSS, the bitube head has two flash tubes and two cables.
You plug two packs into the head, and each pack drives a single tube at 600ws for a combined 1200ws

Think of it as two remote flash heads, merged into one mount....

It wont be a true 1200ws either, but pretty close

I just found it on the Godox site. Its the H1200 remote. its a single flash tube with cables for two AD600 power units. The head looks to be about the same size as the H600 so it should work with most modifiers.

1200Ws TTL and HSS that should address even the most difficult over come the sun shooting situations.

idkdc wrote in post #17953636
Do they maintain both TTL and HSS functionality? At the same time? Wowza. Is the true Ws 525 per pack?

The New 600 is only 525Ws per pack its only about 3/4 of a stop over the 360. Godox has a 2 to 1 cable that connects 2 600 together into remote head h1200 with a 1200ws bulb which is 230.00. It will do full TTL and HSS at 1050Ws.

Forgot to add that 15lb running the 2 packs and head unit

idkdc wrote in post #17953558
Elv's page: http://flashhavoc.com …tro-ttl-strobe-announced/

Well, ****, I might one of these...or two or four. Holy hell.

Is recycle time decent? And with HSS?

In my testing of the AD600B side-by-side with the RL600B, both in X sync and HSS, I found the RL600B had 2/3 stop more flash output than the AD600B and some have tested closer to 1 full stop. Currently the Godox H1200 (2 into 1) mount is $86 without the bulb and I have not even seen a 1200WS bulb advertised as of yet, nor the cost for one. You'll need 2 AD600B and an H1200 w/bulb just to have the same flash output basically as 1 RL600B. Now the AD600B recycles twice as fast as the RL600B at 1/1 power and the AD600B is a true HSS flash, not a long flash duration Faux HSS flash like the RL600B. So you'll need flash sync timing to optimize the flash exposure of the RL600B in HSS. Just some food for thought!

What modifiers did you use in your comparison? I have metered AD600B to be one stop below Rovelight with the compact 5" reflector as well as the Glow Parapop/SMDV 28". I was able to narrow down this gap to only 1/3 stop though with a 65 degree higher efficiency reflector. Both measured at full power and normal sync speed.

amirg wrote in post #17954398
What modifiers did you use in your comparison? I have metered AD600B to be one stop below Rovelight with the compact 5" reflector as well as the Glow Parapop/SMDV 28". I was able to narrow down this gap to only 1/3 stop though with a 65 degree higher efficiency reflector. Both measured at full power and normal sync speed.

I used the PCB Omni with the triple diffusion sock to test the RL600B, PCB Einstein and AD600B. The RL600B and Einstein were the same and the AD600B metered 2/3 stop less.

Thanks for the clarification Rand. Incidentally Adorama have put up the picture of what looks like their final XPLOR600 unit to be shipped in two weeks. I wonder if anyone can identify that reflector as according to Elv it may be able to bring AD600 to (almost) the same level as RoveLight.

My recently-acquired Nikon D5 is showing ERR every 3-5 shots when using the X1-N. The D5 user manual just says it means "Camera Malfunction". No such issues when using a PW MiniTT1 or SB-900, so it has to be related to the X1-N. Any thoughts? (Won't be using the X1-N with this camera again until it's resolved.)