A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #17955432
My recently-acquired Nikon D5 is showing ERR every 3-5 shots when using the X1-N. The D5 user manual just says it means "Camera Malfunction". No such issues when using a PW MiniTT1 or SB-900, so it has to be related to the X1-N. Any thoughts? (Won't be using the X1-N with this camera again until it's resolved.)

Uggghhhh... THAT is not encouraging. I'm waiting for my D5 and my X Series lights and radios to arrive. I wouldn't have anticipated there would be that sort of an early issue.

agv8or wrote in post #17954554
I used the PCB Omni with the triple diffusion sock to test the RL600B, PCB Einstein and AD600B. The RL600B and Einstein were the same and the AD600B metered 2/3 stop less.

Rand, thanks for the info. Would you say 2/3 stop is rated equivalent to 400W? If so then, how much more (in stops) is the AD600 over the AD360IIs? I have a feeling that the AD600 is comparable to Profoto B1 (500W) at best.

AD600 is around 525 Ws based on what Edward Tang said.

amirg wrote in post #17955523
AD600 is around 525 Ws based on what Edward Tang said.

No it based off what Uxxxx at Godox says.

Lol, fair enough. At least they don't insist it's 600.

Sometimes the ERR would show up after 4 or 5 frames, sometimes not until 14 or more. I checked the voltage on each of the X1-N pins, and the highest reading is 3.26V. I'm hoping that someone with a technical understanding of trigger/camera interaction can shed some light on this. I've re-posted this issue on the AD360 forum since it seems to be related to the trigger and not the actual flash.

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #17955646
Sometimes the ERR would show up after 4 or 5 frames, sometimes not until 14 or more. I checked the voltage on each of the X1-N pins, and the highest reading is 3.26V. I'm hoping that someone with a technical understanding of trigger/camera interaction can shed some light on this. I've re-posted this issue on the AD360 forum since it seems to be related to the trigger and not the actual flash.

Trouble shooting questions:
What were the circumstances leading up to the ERR?
Was a camera parameter changed?
Was a trigger parameter changed?
Was the camera moved from horizontal to vertical?
Was the trigger hit or moved changing, even slightly its relationship to the hotshoe?
Has the camera or trigger firmware been refreshed?

Random ERRs are almost impossible to track down. Being able to identify anything that repeatably causes the ERR will help Godox determine how to correct the incompatibility if there is one between the firmware and the D5.

In the most simple and straightforward case, I set the camera and X1-N to Manual mode with a shutter speed of 1/200. In this condition I've seen ERR show up after 2 shots, but I've also seen it take as many as 14 before the ERR occurred. Even though the camera reports ERR, the flash is triggered and the image is properly exposed.

In response to your other troubleshooting questions:

Parameters on the camera and trigger were not changed after being set
The camera was not rotated
Nothing was bumped
Camera firmware is just as it was at time of delivery
Trigger firmware is at V12

EmaginePixel wrote in post #17955500
Rand, thanks for the info. Would you say 2/3 stop is rated equivalent to 400W? If so then, how much more (in stops) is the AD600 over the AD360IIs? I have a feeling that the AD600 is comparable to Profoto B1 (500W) at best.

Not really sure how to compare WS of strobes to any valuable degree to where you could use those figures to be a true representation of a strobes performance. Those figures are good for giving you some idea of the classification of a strobe and a relative expectation of the strobes performance but I take them with a grain of salt. There are so many variables to consider, that could affect the flash exposure output, even when using the same modifier in the same setup.

When I did the testing it was to help Elv verify some results he was getting when testing these strobes. We came to the conclusion that the flash tube design possibly had a lot to do with the difference in the readings. There is a big difference between the flash tubes of the RL600B and AD600B, and the way the bulbs are positioned in the modifier. This difference in flash tube design and the method of testing (flash meter 4' from center of modifier) may not be giving a true representation of the flash capability, and it definitely does not give a true representation of the overall performance and the features of that flash.

The AD600 has so many great features, when compared to other 500-600WS battery powered strobes, that a few 1/3's of a stop of flash output here or there is not going to make a difference to me. I have many options when working with the output of any given flash but, I am not going to pay $2500 for a Profoto flash and transmitter that can't even do a global FEC, nor am I going to go cheap for an RL600B that that takes twice as long to recycle as the AD600BM, has Faux HSS requiring flash sync timing, etc... The list could go on and on of all the pro's and con's to where the flash meter reading difference, taken 4' from the center of a given modifier, is of no real significance other than to throw into the mix of conversations in a forum. In the end it is just information to consider but hopefully it's not the sole basis for choosing a strobe.

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #17955867
Even though the camera reports ERR, the flash is triggered and the image is properly exposed.

Considering this statement it seems to me there is some communication message being exchanged that the camera can't interpret so it pops the ERR message. What ever the message is, it seems not to impact the basic communications required for firing the light. Since you're shooting in M with the light, its probably a control message that's extraneous to M mode.

Does the EXIF data change for a frame that is shot when the ERR message appears?

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #17955867
In the most simple and straightforward case, I set the camera and X1-N to Manual mode with a shutter speed of 1/200. In this condition I've seen ERR show up after 2 shots, but I've also seen it take as many as 14 before the ERR occurred. Even though the camera reports ERR, the flash is triggered and the image is properly exposed.

The camera is brand spanking new. And the X1 is relatively new.

One more question: From where did you purchase your X1? And does the X1 locking pin lock into the D5 hot shoe, or can the X1 slide out easily?

Sorry about the troubles, BIC.

dmward wrote in post #17955968
Considering this statement it seems to me there is some communication message being exchanged that the camera can't interpret so it pops the ERR message. What ever the message is, it seems not to impact the basic communications required for firing the light. Since you're shooting in M with the light, its probably a control message that's extraneous to M mode.

Does the EXIF data change for a frame that is shot when the ERR message appears?

The EXIF data does not change. FWIW - I just fired 20 consecutive shots in TTL mode with no errors.

Ulysses01 wrote in post #17955980
The camera is brand spanking new. And the X1 is relatively new.

One more question: From where did you purchase your X1? And does the X1 locking pin lock into the D5 hot shoe, or can the X1 slide out easily?

Sorry about the troubles, BIC.

The X1-N and 360II-N were purchased through Amazon. The next ones will come from Cheetah, primarily because they're such good people to work with. I manually actuated the locking pin several times before sliding the trigger into the shoe. I sure didn't want to have the thing stuck, and so far there's been no issue.

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #17955986
The EXIF data does not change. FWIW - I just fired 20 consecutive shots in TTL mode with no errors.

Did you try the center pin only Fn option?
When I was testing the YN-E3 for them on Canon 5DIII and then tried it on a Fuji XT-1 there was a problem, even in M, until they added the legacy mode that turned off all the control pins.

Since it seems to be working in TTL without the ERR it seems to confirm a communications anomaly as the cause.

Rand,

Thanks for your input. I agree we're probably splitting hairs when the unit is about 1/3 to 2/3 stop. But for me, shooting in sunny SoCal at the beach quite often, I needed every wattage coming out of the RL600s especially using modifiers. Here's a sample family portrait at the beach in December about 45 minutes before sunset. Two RL600s barely have enough power for group shots using shoot thru umbrellas.

Settings were ISO 100, 1/200 sec, F9. This exposure already compromised. Ideally I would have liked the ambient to be one stop lower, but then the strobes were maxed out. That's the reason I am afraid that two AD600s would compromise 2 stops... unless I can use High Sync to make up the difference.