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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 10:20
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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

 
mmmfotografie
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Mar 21, 2017 15:15 |  #6661

Lencarta is to me a good source for good prices item. Have just seen the AD360II for 449 Pound so that is a good price for the set. Better than the 750 euro price over here.

You van calculate in advance the taxes and duties if they apply and the thing holding me back from buying at Adorama ate the shipping cost.




  
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AnnieMacD
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Mar 21, 2017 16:48 |  #6662

mmmfotografie wrote in post #18307118 (external link)
Lencarta is to me a good source for good prices item. Have just seen the AD360II for 449 Pound so that is a good price for the set. Better than the 750 euro price over here.

You van calculate in advance the taxes and duties if they apply and the thing holding me back from buying at Adorama ate the shipping cost.

I just looked on the site and they have all the new Godox stuff in including the AD200. It looks like they are not rebranding the new generation of products. But I'm sure they will be offering warranties and support. They seem to be branching out with lots of goodies - must have a good look!


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Whortleberry
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Mar 22, 2017 16:53 |  #6663

dmward wrote in post #18306541 (external link)
All I can say is the EU has managed to get things seriously messed up from a regulatory, tariff, and tax perspective when importing products. Especially if there is a company in the EU manufacturing a competitive product.

Aside from the bureaucracy you can probably thank Hensel and Elinchrom as well.
As for the Cheetah Stand model. Even if there were someone wanting to get into the business. The hoops they would have to jump through, along with the fees, add-on costs, etc. would probably bring the price up to about the same level. I know it did for our products. We tried it.

Very true! Since that time, our bureaucrats have worked assiduously nay tirelessly to foul things up to an even greater extent. A great success story all round. :eek: And, of course, protectionism plays it's part too - if you should for some reason want to buy a Chinese-made bicycle in the UK there's a 45% import duty (plus 20% VAT) to pay.

jlafferty wrote in post #18306495 (external link)
I get that we'd all rather be out taking pictures but... what's stopping some enterprising Brit from being the UK equivalent of Cheetah? Importing, rebranding and sellings goods manufactured in China subjected to the same problematic duties/insurance/taxes​? Has anyone compared the figures of doing so against other options?

And since I'm asking... if the internet seems (to me) to be dominated by reverence for Alien Bees for years, and suddenly they're being replaced by Godox/Flashpoint, neither of which seem readily available and supported in the UK... what've y'all been shooting with all this time? :D :/

Language! For some unfathomable reason, there seems to be a Pan-European relectance on the part of some to buy Product A from Country B when often the only difference is the language on the website. Perhaps these folks lack the mental agility to use translation software or perhaps it's a mistrust of "Johnny Forgeigner" engendered by centuries of war. Dunno. I'll happily work with suppliers in Poland, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Greece & Portugal (plus China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore & occasionally Japan) on a regular basis but many simply won't do that for some reason. This means that (for example) a UK supplier of Godox (Lencarta) (external link) have a much more limited target market while Walser Gmbh (external link) service Germany with exactly the same products apart from the white paint on the side.

Alien Bees never achieved much market penetration this side of The Pond because of the aforementioned bureaucracy ...... and your wierd US voltage, out of line with the rest of the world  :p. The 'reverence' for Alien Bees on the internet was/is nothing more than folks shouting about them more than other brands. Oh, and they end up ridiculously pricey for their quality/specification over here.

AnnieMacD wrote in post #18307230 (external link)
I just looked on the site and they have all the new Godox stuff in including the AD200. It looks like they are not rebranding the new generation of products. But I'm sure they will be offering warranties and support. They seem to be branching out with lots of goodies - must have a good look!

Lencarta are in the old rock/hard place zone regarding the breadth of their offerings. Excellent service (but then, they're only just up the road from me so I might be biased locally) and what they do offer is good. HOWEVER, they also have a disquieting tendency to rush to print/webpage without fully proof-reading what they are saying so beware the technical specifications they quote. Info might be right ...... then again, it might not. Occasionally, illustrations don't marry with the product being described either. Doesn't detract from the product, just the veracity of their advertising on occasion.


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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jlafferty
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Mar 22, 2017 22:38 as a reply to  @ Whortleberry's post |  #6664

The 'reverence' for Alien Bees on the internet was/is nothing more than folks shouting about them more than other brands.

Yes, but why? And to my point: if you're not using Alien Bees because you can't get them in the rest of the world, what've you been using in the meantime?


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dmward
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Post edited over 2 years ago by dmward.
     
Mar 23, 2017 08:46 |  #6665

jlafferty wrote in post #18308415 (external link)
Yes, but why? And to my point: if you're not using Alien Bees because you can't get them in the rest of the world, what've you been using in the meantime?

The why was/is that Buff designed a durable strobe that he chose to sell direct to photographers. This eliminated one or two layers of distribution compared with the competitors. This made it possible for a lot of photographers to acquire and use strobes as a light source that couldn't justify the cost of the "name brand" lights sold by camera stores.

The internet expanded the market for him by simplifying his communication channel with prospective customers. He ensured customer loyalty with outstanding customer service.

Godox has created a wave in the strobe market by designing and building an integrated system of flash light sources that range from small travel speedlites (TT350) to 600Ws battery and mains powered strobes. All controlled by a camera trigger controller that has variants that work with Nikon, Canon, Sony, and soon Fujifilm and M43. All at a reasonable price. The difference is that Godox has chosen to supply product, without warranty and repair support, what I called OEM/FOB when dealing with similar options in telecommunications.

Buff's approach, which mean his company was taking complete responsibility for customer delivery and service meant that his market foot print was limited by his resources. He tried a couple of times to expand outside North America with mixed results; Higher prices and less committed customer service.

Godox business model is to sell their products to any reseller willing to make purchase commitments. Whether those resellers provide warranty and repair service is the resellers choice since Godox responsibility is limited to delivering working product to its loading dock.


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jlafferty
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Mar 23, 2017 12:48 |  #6666

I appreciate the overview but it still misses my question and I guess I'll just resign myself to accepting it as a mystery.

If you're outside the US, and not using speedlights, what was the dominant, popular budget lighting system of choice, prior to Godox?

dmward wrote in post #18308601 (external link)
The why was/is that Buff designed a durable strobe that he chose to sell direct to photographers. This eliminated one or two layers of distribution compared with the competitors. This made it possible for a lot of photographers to acquire and use strobes as a light source that couldn't justify the cost of the "name brand" lights sold by camera stores.

The internet expanded the market for him by simplifying his communication channel with prospective customers. He ensured customer loyalty with outstanding customer service.

Godox has created a wave in the strobe market by designing and building an integrated system of flash light sources that range from small travel speedlites (TT350) to 600Ws battery and mains powered strobes. All controlled by a camera trigger controller that has variants that work with Nikon, Canon, Sony, and soon Fujifilm and M43. All at a reasonable price. The difference is that Godox has chosen to supply product, without warranty and repair support, what I called OEM/FOB when dealing with similar options in telecommunications.

Buff's approach, which mean his company was taking complete responsibility for customer delivery and service meant that his market foot print was limited by his resources. He tried a couple of times to expand outside North America with mixed results; Higher prices and less committed customer service.

Godox business model is to sell their products to any reseller willing to make purchase commitments. Whether those resellers provide warranty and repair service is the resellers choice since Godox responsibility is limited to delivering working product to its loading dock.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Mar 23, 2017 14:01 |  #6667

jlafferty wrote in post #18308759 (external link)
..

If you're outside the US, and not using speedlights, what was the dominant, popular budget lighting system of choice, prior to Godox?

Paul C. Buff sold in Europe up until 2014. Literally that gap began to be filled by Godox that year.

Elinchrome, Hensel Bowens and other pricier options were likely the most popular.


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Whortleberry
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Whortleberry.
     
Mar 23, 2017 17:02 |  #6668

jlafferty wrote in post #18308415 (external link)
Yes, but why? And to my point: if you're not using Alien Bees because you can't get them in the rest of the world, what've you been using in the meantime?

Strobe Equipment, then Courtenay then Bowens (mid-1960s onwards). Supplanted (where there was no mains power) with firstly Braun F300/F800 then Metz 202/402/45CT/45CL - all in hammerhead versions and all with maker's own lead-acid power packs.

Alien Bee would have had to replace UK made (in those days) Bowens with less readily available, quirky mount items designed for a different voltage/frequency and adapted to 240v 50~. All this at a higher unit cost, with less readily available service and from a company with a far shorter track record. Simply no contest for me, others will doubtless differ. Why replace sound, proven gear and a host of modifiers for a totally different system which wouldn't have added anything to my capabilities.

When I started gathering gear, Elinca were a tiny, very niche market and other UK/European brands' (eg Balcar) distribution was generally pretty much restricted to their own countries, therefore not really a viable option. At that time, too, (pre-EU) there was a 55% purchase tax on "luxury" goods like photographic gear so there were very distinct advantages to buying home-grown products. A 55% tax on shipping/import duty/etc as well as on the product itself can make a pretty large difference when first setting up a studio :eek: Once locked into the Bowens system, I found no incentive to change - even when they switched from 'L' mount to 'S' mount and the whole world started copying them.


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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Phil ­ V
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Mar 23, 2017 17:18 |  #6669

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18308837 (external link)
Paul C. Buff sold in Europe up until 2014. Literally that gap began to be filled by Godox that year.

Elinchrome, Hensel Bowens and other pricier options were likely the most popular.

But even when Buff were selling over here, there was no proper support in place, they were never a market leader.

In the U.K. Jessops own brand lighting had a big chunk of the market. Interfit have always been a strong budget brand, and elinchrom and Bowens have had a solid chunk of the market.


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Whortleberry
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Mar 23, 2017 18:08 |  #6670

I'd completely forgotten about Jessops rather inflexible 'Powerflash' heads even though I do have (somewhere) a couple of fairly decent stands with the brand blazoned on. Never rated Interfit gear in their post-Photax incarnation ..... bit too much 'built-down-to-a-price-not-up-to-a-specification' (which unfortunately was rather too obvious) for my liking.


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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dpe
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Mar 24, 2017 04:11 |  #6671

mmmfotografie wrote in post #18307118 (external link)
Lencarta is to me a good source for good prices item. Have just seen the AD360II for 449 Pound so that is a good price for the set. Better than the 750 euro price over here.

You van calculate in advance the taxes and duties if they apply and the thing holding me back from buying at Adorama ate the shipping cost.

But do they have stock?

Mike


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mmmfotografie
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Mar 24, 2017 05:06 as a reply to  @ jlafferty's post |  #6672

Falcon Eyes.




  
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mmmfotografie
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Post edited over 2 years ago by mmmfotografie. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 24, 2017 05:11 as a reply to  @ dpe's post |  #6673

The Lecarta webshop states in two weeks time.

The AD200 is a lot cheaper with them compated to the horrendous prices asked in the Netherlands.




  
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dpe
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Mar 24, 2017 16:25 |  #6674

mmmfotografie wrote in post #18309379 (external link)
The Lecarta webshop states in two weeks time.

The AD200 is a lot cheaper with them compated to the horrendous prices asked in the Netherlands.


Try essentialphoto/pixapro or Photomart

Mike


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mmmfotografie
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Mar 25, 2017 04:13 as a reply to  @ dpe's post |  #6675

They have the same price as Lencarta for the AD200. Will have a look at Photomart.




  
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