Disappointment in switching from full manual to e-ttl2

Last sunday I did my first full e-ttl photoshoot, where I mainly used two 580EX's triggered with an ST-E2.
We had plenty of time (couple of hours), isolated location (great location in fact, my best ever), full control of all the ambient lights and familliar clients who are used to my style.

Right off the bat I was suffering from huge inconsistencies. I started off with one 580EX through a shoot through umbrella and one bare kicker 180 degrees from the key at a ratio of 4:1. I don't think two shots were the exact same exposure and what's worse is that the ratios kept jumping around from barely visible rim, to full blown-out backlight.

Then I switched to a silver reflect umbrella instead of the bare rim, since I needed a wider and softer backlight for 5-people groupshots. Those were more consistent in ratios, but the inconsistent overall exposure kept on, as well as misfires (possibly due to recycling issues though).
When looking at my final shots, I had a LOT of underexposure problems and had to push the shots a lot which then became a bit noisy.

All in all I was able to salvage a few good shots, but this experience left me very unsatisfied with using TTL.
Any recommendations for where to look for the issue here? Maybe another 580EX would work better than the ST-E2...

Here's a few shots from it. Next shoot is going to be with my trusted Nikon SB-80DX's again for now...
Shot with 5Dc, 24-105, 2x580EX and ST-E2.

#1: underexposed, ratio was off and backlight went nuclear over the previous shot. Unfortunately this was one of the better group expressions.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/mdstoop/8431143​757/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/mdstoop/8432226​722/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/mdstoop/8431143​427/

For me, in a situation like this, there is zero advantage to using ETTL. Stick to manual.

i personally do not trust ettl for more controlled shoots

in my opinion nothing is better than going manual! you know how much light it will output and won't have to worry about inconsistencies

just my 2 cents

i moved away from my ettl flashguns cause i didn't see the point of it besides for events/weddings which i dont shoot

Consistency concerns with ETTL are basically because each shot is metered by the camera. Its a reflective reading so anything that affects the amount of reflected light from the source via anything in the field of view to the camera is going to have an impact.

Situation you are describing with two off camera speedlites is always going to be more consistent with Manual speedlite power settings. The images you posted (very nice) have a lot of potentially reflective surfaces that can impact the exposure.
The reason the ratio looks off from shot to shot is that its set by metering each group and then adjusting power to satisfy the ratio. (At least that's how it was explained to me.) That means that reflections may impact each group differently.

I'm a big fan of ETTL for events where there is a lot of moving. I also have found it easy to use for headshots and similar situations were the subject is relatively close to the camera and filling the frame.

For a shoot similar to yours I'd be much more inclined to use manual and probably monolights.

Thanks, I added a bit more info below and switched "scenarios" between #2 and #3.
I did a lot of individuals as well, in front of a huge window. Ironically I ended up with one silhouette which became one of my favorites of the day (attached). Hurray for misfires

Fortunately I've had a lot of experience with manual flash and I do actually feel more comfortable using that, but I was hoping ETTL would save me a lot of walking up and down.

@dmward: your explanation sounds very plausible. I guess I should fix my problems with some sort of system for manual with remote power levels. ETTL has it's places, but when I need to fire off 5 frames with consistent eposures, it's becoming clear that I should stick with what worked before.

Indeed. You need to get a way to adjust power and then you will be loving life.

Also, thats a cool image!

Thanks! I was lucky to have two versions of it (double mis-fire). Just goes to show that sometimes you have to forget the flashes and turn them off.
The main issue with those misfires is just that I'm used to shooting with 2 or 3 Nikon SB-80DX's. Those can really handle themselves in 1/4th power and spoiled me a bit. I love dual bracketing them on 1/4th power. Studioheads are probably better for this, but I carry everything I used here in one Think Tank retrospective 30 + a Standbagger Grab-n-Go 6 for the stands, umbrellas and two flashes (the manual backups though).

Also, Phottix Odin looks like something I'd want for these kinds of shoots. I'm feeling drastic and contemplating selling my manual flashes for one more 580EX (II) and get a bunch of these Odins. Not cheap but they look like a good product.
http://www.phottix.com​/en/phottix-odin-ttl.html

Michael,
Don't know about the Odin devices but the YN-622c is really nice.
It gives me control of the flashes via the camera external flash menu.
They also control a flash on the hot shoe on top of the trigger for situations where you want fill.
There is a thread here that is more than 100 pages. Look for the User Name Cliveyboy.
He has compiled a really comprehensive user guide that is well worth the read.

The YN-622 offers you the ability to set the groups to manual independently and also control their power from the camera external flash menu.

I have 5DIIIs and 600Ex-RTs and the YN-622 is what I use with older Canon ETTL speedlites mostly in manual.

It provides essentially the same as the 600's Gr function for the three groups.

https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=15560562&po​stcount=33

Wilt wrote in post #15561314
https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=15560562&po​stcount=33

Darn, Beat me to it. I should not have had a nap

dmward wrote in post #15561232
Michael,
Don't know about the Odin devices but the YN-622c is really nice.
It gives me control of the flashes via the camera external flash menu.
They also control a flash on the hot shoe on top of the trigger for situations where you want fill.
There is a thread here that is more than 100 pages. Look for the User Name Cliveyboy.
He has compiled a really comprehensive user guide that is well worth the read.

The YN-622 offers you the ability to set the groups to manual independently and also control their power from the camera external flash menu.

I have 5DIIIs and 600Ex-RTs and the YN-622 is what I use with older Canon ETTL speedlites mostly in manual.

It provides essentially the same as the 600's Gr function for the three groups.

Good suggestion, and I'd pick them over odins for the price, but afaik the YN-622's don't work with the 5Dc. Maybe I'll upgrade that before I get a new trigger system though. Undecided so far

TweakMDS wrote in post #15561454
Good suggestion, and I'd pick them over odins for the price, but afaik the YN-622's don't work with the 5Dc. Maybe I'll upgrade that before I get a new trigger system though. Undecided so far

Opps. Well now you have incentive for upgrading.

But they will work with your 40D.

Why not try the pocket wizard Ac3 zone controller?? Works for both ettl, and manual mode with the mini tt1 and the flex tt5.