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Thread started 10 Feb 2013 (Sunday) 08:39
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Birds w/ 200mm or less

 
OhLook
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Post edited over 6 years ago by OhLook.
     
Feb 20, 2013 22:10 |  #106

gymell wrote in post #15627016 (external link)
Have you looked at examples of what other photographers are doing with the same equipment?

Yes, and most of the ones posted on this board are better. That's what bothers me. It feels like trying to play with the big kids and finding out that it was a mistake.

And for other photos that you like, do you look into the technical details to see how the photographer accomplished that result?

Sometimes I look at mode, aperture, exposure, and ISO. Those data together fall short of telling me how the photographer accomplished the result. There's more to making a good photo than numbers.

I've been reading at Wikipedia about things like focal distance, but the articles get too technical very quickly for a reader not educated in optics.

Here's one question so elementary that everyone else apparently learned the answer long ago. Try not to laugh, please. What does the "200 mm" in the title of this thread refer to? Inputting "focal length" at Wikipedia brings up the article "Focal distance," but to me focal distance is the distance from a lens to its fixation point. That's what it means for the lens of the human eye. Surely, though, those bald eagles in the photos were farther than 200 mm from the camera. What and what are 200 mm apart?

Having seen more bird photos here, I'm not convinced that mine are the absolutely blurriest, so here we go. This is one of the two I removed earlier. White-Crowned Sparrow, cloudy day, handheld G15, Tv mode, 1/400, 2.8, ISO 250 (Auto), focal length 30.5 mm, no zoom. I was maybe 15 feet away. Exposure is okay, but the degree of sharpness is disappointing. I thought 1/400 would be fast enough. What would I have had to do to get better feather detail?

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PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa | Comments welcome

  
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MikeWa
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Feb 21, 2013 08:45 |  #107

GMHY wrote in post #15634247 (external link)
5D MK II and EF 85 mm f/1.8
(I think I posted it about 2 years ago already but should not be a problem?)
Thanks for looking.

QUOTED IMAGE

Fantastic picture. Just awesome.

Mike


Mike...G9; 7D; 7D Mark II; EF-S 10-22mm; EF-S 18-135mm IS STM; EF 28-300mm F3.5-5.6L; EF 70-300mm IS USM; EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS-II; EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS; EXT 1.4-II & 2.0-III; The more I learn the less I know.

  
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bluesydude
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Feb 21, 2013 08:51 as a reply to  @ MikeWa's post |  #108

It is amazing to see the shots one can get without a bazooka lens. These were taken with my Sigma 105 Macro. (Great lens)

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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Feb 21, 2013 09:23 |  #109

OhLook wrote in post #15634287 (external link)
What does the "200 mm" in the title of this thread refer to?

The 200mm refers to the focal length of the lens. This is the distance from the lens to the sensor. The longer that distance is, the smaller your field of view will be and the larger your subject will be in the frame.
Zoom lenses are described with two measurements, like the 70-200mm. The 70mm is the wide end of the lens, the 200mm is the long end, as 200mm is a longer focal length than 70mm. This means that if you photograph a bird at 200mm it will be more frame filling than when you photograph that bird at 70mm.

Take a look at this youtube explanation (external link). It is purely visual but shows what focal length means very well I think.


Wild Birds of Europe: https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=19371752
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OhLook
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Feb 21, 2013 11:37 |  #110

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #15635573 (external link)
The 200mm refers to the focal length of the lens. This is the distance from the lens to the sensor.

Thank you. Your post was very clear.

So does moving the zoom lever to the right do its magic by simply moving the lens forward?

"Extra close up" is the opposite of "Extra far away." Does using the macro setting (two taps on the left side of the ring) move the lens backward?


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa | Comments welcome

  
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Xcelx
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Feb 21, 2013 12:25 |  #111

great shots bluesy! are they handheld?




  
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Lichter21c
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Feb 21, 2013 12:27 |  #112

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gymell
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Feb 21, 2013 12:59 |  #113

OhLook wrote in post #15634287 (external link)
Yes, and most of the ones posted on this board are better. That's what bothers me. It feels like trying to play with the big kids and finding out that it was a mistake.

Everyone has to start somewhere! It's a learning process, and personally I think bird photography is one of the most difficult types of photography, and can be very frustrating but can also be very rewarding.

Sometimes I look at mode, aperture, exposure, and ISO. Those data together fall short of telling me how the photographer accomplished the result. There's more to making a good photo than numbers.

I've been reading at Wikipedia about things like focal distance, but the articles get too technical very quickly for a reader not educated in optics.

Agreed. I certainly didn't understand any of the technical stuff when I started. So for me it was a matter of reading/hands on/looking at examples and doing that over and over until it started to sink in. Here's a good book to read to get started with some basics: Understanding Exposure (external link).

Here's one question so elementary that everyone else apparently learned the answer long ago. Try not to laugh, please. What does the "200 mm" in the title of this thread refer to? Inputting "focal length" at Wikipedia brings up the article "Focal distance," but to me focal distance is the distance from a lens to its fixation point. That's what it means for the lens of the human eye. Surely, though, those bald eagles in the photos were farther than 200 mm from the camera. What and what are 200 mm apart?

And it's the same for a camera lens - the fixation point is the sensor. So the 200mm is from where the light enters the lens to where it converges at the sensor. I think this link illustrates it pretty well (external link). Yeah, I know it's a Nikon link... ;)

Here's another cool illustration (external link) of the same scene at different focal lengths (Canon link this time!!)

Having seen more bird photos here, I'm not convinced that mine are the absolutely blurriest, so here we go. This is one of the two I removed earlier. White-Crowned Sparrow, cloudy day, handheld G15, Tv mode, 1/400, 2.8, ISO 250 (Auto), focal length 30.5 mm, no zoom. I was maybe 15 feet away. Exposure is okay, but the degree of sharpness is disappointing. I thought 1/400 would be fast enough. What would I have had to do to get better feather detail?

The problem with your photo is not the shutter speed, but that you are at 30.5mm and 15 feet away from a small songbird, you had to crop it pretty heavy, thus losing detail in the image. This is one of the challenges of bird photography - most birds are tiny and fast, and even with super telephotos you still have to be quite close to them in order to get detailed, frame filling images.

For the shot you posted and what you tried to accomplish with it (a portrait shot of a small songbird), you are at a disadvantage with the type of camera you have... smaller sensor, not as fast as an SLR, less focal length. But that doesn't mean you have to give up, you just have to work within what you have available. All of us have to do that. So a few strategies you can use within the limitations of your equipment are to learn which wild birds are tame enough for you to get closer to them, taking shots including more of the environment rather than pure portraits, photograph larger birds, practice on captive subjects, try digiscoping, etc.

I hope that helps answer some questions for you!


-Liz
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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Feb 21, 2013 13:10 |  #114

OhLook wrote in post #15636084 (external link)
Thank you. Your post was very clear.

Thank you and you're welcome. :)

OhLook wrote in post #15636084 (external link)
So does moving the zoom lever to the right do its magic by simply moving the lens forward?

In principle, yes. By zooming in or out the focal length of the lens is changed. You will find that the cheaper lenses actually physically extend when you zoom in whereby the lens becomes longer, where the more expensive lenses (like the various copies of the Canon 70-200mm) do not extend but do their stuff internally.

OhLook wrote in post #15636084 (external link)
"Extra close up" is the opposite of "Extra far away." Does using the macro setting (two taps on the left side of the ring) move the lens backward?

I don't know much about the workings of macro lenses, but as they come in different focal lengths, I would say no. But somebody else is going to have to answer this. I did find an article (external link) that might shed some light on macro lenses for you.


Wild Birds of Europe: https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=19371752
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Feb 21, 2013 13:15 |  #115

Two shots taken with the 24-105L @ 105mm, cropped. After saving all last year for the 5D3 it looks like this year I will be saving for the 100-400mm. Not into taking bird shots that much but have seen some eagles and falcons flying round when out mountain biking which has sparked my interest.

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Feb 21, 2013 13:25 |  #116

Xcelx wrote in post #15636273 (external link)
great shots bluesy! are they handheld?

Thank you! :) Yes, handheld.


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Billginthekeys
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Feb 21, 2013 13:25 |  #117

95mm Tricolor Heron in flight:
http://www.pbase.com …hotography/imag​e/88446341 (external link)

(sorry for the link, pbase images never seem to display correctly on this forum).


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Biker010
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Feb 21, 2013 13:34 as a reply to  @ Billginthekeys's post |  #118

so hows this... shot at 105mm. Its a black bird against the blinding white of snow... but look at the detail!
I was pretty amazed it came out at all. :)

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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Feb 21, 2013 13:42 |  #119

^^^ That's because the snow acts as a giant reflector. :)


Wild Birds of Europe: https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=19371752
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Feb 21, 2013 13:43 |  #120

70-200 f/4 @ 200mm

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Birds w/ 200mm or less
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