Any low light performance gained?

Lien wrote in post #15639691
For me, 2.8 on the 7D was still not enough for indoor low light movement. The original question is comparing performance between APS-C with f2.8 and FF with f4.

I will still put on my 50 1.4 or 85 1.8 for indoor shots of my 2 year old running around.

That is what I have been trying to say also. Even with FF you need fast glass.

FF with fast glass is my new high

bobbyz wrote in post #15639698
That is what I have been trying to say also. Even with FF you need fast glass.

if you're indoors, you'd be much better off with a flash. If you're shooting kids running around at night, just use noise reduction. Chances are, with a F1.x lens indoor, you wont have enough DOF. I have a few really really low light photos shot with a 2.8 zoom that turned out pretty noisy (6400 underexposed). a little bit of noise reduction, and the shot turns out great on print.

Charlie wrote in post #15639758
if you're indoors, you'd be much better off with a flash. If you're shooting kids running around at night, just use noise reduction. Chances are, with a F1.x lens indoor, you wont have enough DOF. I have a few really really low light photos shot with a 2.8 zoom that turned out pretty noisy (6400 underexposed). a little bit of noise reduction, and the shot turns out great on print.

Agree. I use bounced flash even with f1.4 glass. Surprises me when folks say f4 is not an issue and then also say they stick to ISo1600.

^I only stick to ISO1600 because I don't like the noise and banding beyond that. Once I get the 6D I'm sure I'll be fine shooting over 10000ISO. I'm just saying that fast glass is not ALWAYS a necessity, I'd take cleaner high ISO's over a wider aperture for most situations.

I have a 60D. I don't have a 6D, but I do have the original 5D. Using the same lens and the same exposure settings - and EQUIVALENT focal lengths - my 5D is easily one stop better wrt noise, than the 60D. The 5D shows less noise at 3200 than the 60D does at 1600. And the 5D noise is less 'noisy'. I can't describe it better. If the 9 year old 5D can best the 60D, I am sure the 6D will, also.

same experience (except I was with the tamron 17-50)

This is nothing spectacular and I probably wont print it. But this was shot with F4 @ ~200 at night during mardi gras, only noticable lighting I remember was ambient amounts from the "christmas lights" strung on the toy cars, and I was only able to do this because of the 6ds usable high ISOs. It changes what you can shoot.

Taken with a 7D at ISO 12800 at 1/160th at f2.8, so very low light here as well... It would be better if people post samples where they were not happy with their results, and others could point out how to better handle those situations in the future, perhaps?

^That image looks soft to me, and the banding in the colors below her wrists is exactly what I'm talking about... I can't stand that on my images. There's also a lot of color noise on her skin and above her head... not knocking your shot, but that would bother me in my shots.

Hi,

I really like the picture that Teamspeed posted and appreciate his efforts to help those of us who would like to get the most out of the camera that we have.

Jack

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #15640216
^I only stick to ISO1600 because I don't like the noise and banding beyond that. Once I get the 6D I'm sure I'll be fine shooting over 10000ISO. I'm just saying that fast glass is not ALWAYS a necessity, I'd take cleaner high ISO's over a wider aperture for most situations.

We all would but so far high ISO can only do so much. So why handicapp by using slow glass. If buget then I understand. But even then some of the fast primes aren't that expensive.

I gained at least a full stop if not a stop and a half going from the 60D to 5dii, and the 6d is generally regarded to be around a stop better than the 5dii so you'd definitely be better off with the 6d and 24-105.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #15641407
^That image looks soft to me, and the banding in the colors below her wrists is exactly what I'm talking about... I can't stand that on my images. There's also a lot of color noise on her skin and above her head... not knocking your shot, but that would bother me in my shots.

For ISO 12800, there is actually quite a bit of detail, and she actually has that color in her forehead, that is not from the camera.

Sometimes I shoot at lower ISOs like ISO 200-400 though.

This was one of a few times she actually posed quietly and we love this shot.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15641867
@ the OP, I would almost rather consider a 5D2 over the 6D, just due to the value that is there for the price. The 5D2 is just around 1 stop better at the high end than the 60D, and is several hundreds less than a 6D at this time.

At least in the USA, the 5Dii is only cheaper if you are buying used. (Not that there's anything wrong with buying used!) When I bought the 6D kit, the refurbished 5dii was going for $1750 while the new 6D was $1699 body-only and the 6D+24-105 kit was $2299. The current Amazon price for the 6D kit is $2399. (I'm pretty familiar with the prices because I originally intended to buy a refurbished 5dii but found that a new 6D was cheaper.)

Incidentally, it's nice to see the great image quality that you get out of the 7D, TeamSpeed. I always appreciate your posts on the subject.