dSLR autofocus ability...

having broached the subject in another thread I felt it was appropriate to draw this one out into the open a little. I am interested in how accurate the AF is on dslr's, being used to the 1N which seems to have a cracking focusing system I was rather disappointed in the 20D that I tried...so I returned it. is it a problem with the cropped sensor that af points are very tight therefore comparitively greater area is taken up by them [when compared to the film/full frame counterparts]? I did miss the fact the 20d doesn't have a spot focus, more of a 'focus area' which ended up being very hit and miss. oddly a mate's 350d is essentially perfect in that respect, further nailing the lid on the coffin of the 20D for me. I can't help but feel on the 'consumer' end of the spectrum canon are skimping out just a tad!
how does the AF system on say the 350d, 20d, 5d and 1 series differ to that of the 1N and/or film equivelents? as from what I can tell the 20d's is somewhat of a step (more like a leap) back in the wrong direction when compared to the 1N or eos 3 models...

I think you're right! The AF on my old D30 is very hit and miss. Nothing like a 1 series. By comparison (to the D30) the 20D I use at work is much better, but not in the same class as the 1D. If you're used to the 1N you should be saving up for a 1D Mk2 or perhaps even consider an older Mk1.

Having both a EOS 3 and a 1DsMkII as far as I can tell from practice and the books the AF systems are basically identical. They are in terms of results anyway.

Can't speak to 20D, but 10D's were better then D60, but not even close to the 45-point system of the 1 Series cameras.

On the 10D (and D60) I almost exclusivly used the center AF point as I got the best results there. The one exception was when I knew I would be shooting fast moving objects and then I put in AI Servo and used all 7 points. Even then it would miss about 1 in 4 shots

With the 1DsMKII I usually leave in 45 point mode with expanded activation area and seem to get very accurate results with that setting. On rare occasions such as using my 85/1.2 in AF mode at F2 or wider I will use single point for more precision.

My EOS 3 is basically a new camera to me so I don't have enough experience yet to know how well it does, but my limited use show results similiar to the 1DsMkII.

It depends what you are looking at. 1d (mk2 or not mk2) are much better then 1n. They are faster (even if it's hard to notice) then 1v. 10d, 20d (I assume 5d goes with it too since it has af system taken from 20d) and rest are... well crap Sorry let's be real. It's not a bit slower and a bit less accurate then 1d, but it's HUGE step between 1d and 20d. Or maybe it's just me. I work with 1 series so I might be a bit "spoiled".
So if you were happy with 1n you will be more then happy with 1d, and I'm sure you will also be more then unhappy with 20d. At least I know I would be.

hmm...i guess I spoil myself with the 1N then. damn. looks like it could be 1dmkII time instead of another 'consumer' dslr. i would like to know what the new canon offering brings but I suspect it may fall short in terms of construction fidelity i.e. just the same way design tolerances are much more lax in the 20d than the 1 series, which I guess get a thorough testing over before being shipped out. the fact that there's little difference in the 1dmkii and the N is certainly a testament to the advanced nature of the original...a message to owners that its not really that a significant 'uprade' to worry about it but just a bump to keep the market ticking over. and with the world cup [football, in Germany] and winter olympics [Is it Torino, Itlay this time?] on the way its not a bad placement in the market...
hmmm...i don't think I'm really able to justify a 1d though and its quite a hefty beast too, I prefer the smaller portability of the 1N (I don't use a battery grip), when size compared to digitals its about the same as the 5D. its funny, a rugged weatherproof body and its so big and hefty you're less inclined to take it away with you travelling! I guess its along the lines of 'its a digital camera, what do you expect it to run off, nuts and berries?'... I think I need to check a few things out and do a bit more research into things beyond the AF such as battery life/power, functions and all that stuff...gets a bit more technical when you switch from 'simple slides' to digital (a slide doesn't need WB adjustments!). I am serious about my photography, so maybe 1d is a good investment, I can certainly see myself using it, its just the weight I don't fancy lugging around!

You really need to compare the D60, 10D, 20D with comparable film bodies, not the top of the line. They're much more like the Elan 7/33. You wouldn't compare AF on a Rebel Ti with the 1n, would you?

OBTW, on your latest post, re. white balance - well, no, a slide doesn't have a white balance setting, but don't try using daylight film indoors under tungsten light. You either need to change film or lose a stop + from the color-correction filters.

The original 1D Mk1 might be a good cost compromise. Don't be put off by the low sounding 4.1 MP. It's plenty enough resolution. If I could find a low mileage one for a sensible price (they still seem quite expensive used) I'd certainly go for it.

yes, know all about that one.

Among top 3 reasons why I want to switch from 10D to 1D MKII (not 5D, for other reasons) is better focusing system AND the ability to change the focussing screen. If you really need to know, the other two are faster frame rate - faster recording of images, and less noise/better image quality at higher ISO's.

shiato storm, did you try the single centre focus point, or did you let the camera decide what to focus on?

Having progressed through the sequence of D30 => D60 => 10D => 20D => 1D Mark IIN, I can reliably state that the 20D's AF system is very good (significantly better than the D30 and D60, and also better than the 10D), but still not anywhere equal to the EOS3, 1N or 1D series. What continued to drive me to upgrade on the prosumer grade cameras was the focus system, until I finally just decided to bite the bullet and get the 1D Mark IIN. I should have done it a lot sooner, but after I did I was a much happier photographer.

Mark

Yes, but the elan 7 retailed for 20% of the cost price of the D60. Cost IS a factor here. For the price, the AF systems on the current range of Canon Digital SLRs seem to be sub standard. It seems more like Canon is deliberately making weaker models to encourage people to spend more money on the eos D1* series of "professional" Digital SLRs, and hence more profit. Others might not care if a company behaves in such an unprofessional manner, I do. I might just decide to buy a 2nd hand 300mm f2.8 and 2X convertor and keep my eos1n in good use, and give digital a complete miss! Seems better value to me. There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for Canon to be including sub standard AF systems in cameras costing as much as the 20D or 5D do. If you think that's an OK practice, you need your head checked I'm afraid.

Dave

single centre focusing point, and all the others too...individually that is, rarely all together. centre point focus was so wrong lots of the time I just got fed up.

i hear you... i hope canon do otherwise I suspect there's a better company i can hand my money to

Strange - I have two 20D's and a bunch of lenses, and so long as I follow basic technique they focus dead on at least 95% of the time. Did you try having the camera/lenses calibrated? Sounds like you had a faulty unit to me.