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Thread started 26 Feb 2013 (Tuesday) 19:33
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Cheap Competitors - How do they do it?

 
ScubaDude
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Mar 30, 2013 22:52 |  #91
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mobei wrote in post #15767496 (external link)
To the OP's question: How do they do it?

They do it because professional photogs allow them.
Professionals could eliminate better than half of the cheap photogs by calling the tax authorities as we have found. (our region) roughly half are operating outside the law.
About 2 years ago a number of the studio owners in the region decided to start notifying the tax authorities when we found people advertizing on FB etc. It wasn't a easy decision but paying the mortgage and feeding our families was more important to us. We have no delusion of ever becoming a must go to photog like a McNally, just average mid america photogs that were being undercut by amatuers doing business illegally. Well so far things are looking up, Christmas sales were up this year not quite to the levels of 5 years ago but manageable. Were waiting to see how much Sr. Portraits improve.
Cheats and criminalss survive only when not confronted.
Advice to the pros: When you sit down with your laptop at night in front of the TV, scotch in hand check out FB and other social media and send a quick email to the proper authorities. If your too lazy to do this in order to survive then don't **** when you go broke.

Have you ever made a post that didn't talk about ratting photogs out to the IRS? Why don't you just hire the mafia to knee-cap your competition?


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Bear ­ Dale
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Mar 30, 2013 23:00 |  #92

ScubaDude wrote in post #15774156 (external link)
Have you ever made a post that didn't talk about ratting photogs out to the IRS? Why don't you just hire the mafia to knee-cap your competition?

Now I remember mobei!


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brianodom
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Mar 31, 2013 02:09 |  #93

ScubaDude wrote in post #15774156 (external link)
Have you ever made a post that didn't talk about ratting photogs out to the IRS? Why don't you just hire the mafia to knee-cap your competition?

bw!


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JeffreyG
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Mar 31, 2013 08:24 |  #94

mobei wrote in post #15774097 (external link)
I didn't say anything about calling the IRS.
Since when has the world deteriorated so far that reporting criminal behavior is unethical?
Unbelievable response.:cry:

You are ethically required to pay your own taxes. And if in the course of your normal actions you are presented with unambiguous evidence of someone else's criminal acts you have an ethical obligation to report the criminal actions. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

Ethics are based on both your behavior and your intentions. You see competitors who's pricing you do not like, so you create tax hassles for them. Your intention is to attack your competitors, and this is not ethical. Richard Nixon's greatest crime in office was using the IRS against his political enemies He arranged intrusive audits for people who opposed him. You are on the ethical level of the esteemed Richard Nixon.

Let me ask you this....have you ever gone out of your way to research and report the tax situation of anyone who is not competing with you in your chosen field? If not, then you must see that you are not the Robin Hood of the tax underreporting world. You are not motivated by concerns that the government isn't getting its due, you are looking to sabotage competitors that are undercutting you. And let's be very honest about just how small of a burden these taxes are....they for sure are not the real difference in pricing, even if we assume you are correct about who is not paying them.

And that's the other real question here. I'm doubtful that you can really know just what their tax situation is. But since you can inform on them anonymously, you do it. I'm sorry if you think your behavior is rightious, but it is anything but. You are so proud to be an anonymous informant that you crow about it here, anonymously as well. Very courageous.


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cdifoto
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Mar 31, 2013 09:16 |  #95

You can easily blow away your competition by offering a satisfaction guarantee. Boom.


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Luckless
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Mar 31, 2013 09:24 |  #96

mobei wrote in post #15774097 (external link)
I didn't say anything about calling the IRS.
Since when has the world deteriorated so far that reporting criminal behavior is unethical?
Unbelievable response.:cry:

But the thing is, you aren't reporting "Criminal behaviour" in most of the cases you've suggested, but you are reporting "highly biased, self serving, and barely founded suspicions". How do you Know they're not filing all the proper paperwork and tax forms? Maybe their spouse is an accountant who handles everything for them? Maybe they themselves are an accountant, or someone else in their close family/friends circle, and they are simply sloppy in their presentation of themselves?


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watt100
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Mar 31, 2013 10:51 |  #97

mobei wrote in post #15767721 (external link)
Send a email with the link to the taxman.
They take it from there. If you want you can follow up which we did, hence the approx 50%
figure I used. If they fail to comply with tax code they get indicted.
People can call him on me all they want I'm legit.

this is too funny !!
As if the "taxman" is going to "indict" a (probable) unprofitable photography business!




  
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_atlien_
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Mar 31, 2013 17:50 |  #98

This thread is like watching a car accident. So yucky, yet you can't (easily) look away.

I'm reminded of the guys from the 80s that loved Reagan and his pals who wanted to "go global" with the biggest US businesses. So they ship all the labor off to another country to the soundtrack of American guys singing Lee Greenwood's classic. Fast forward a few years and you have immigrants all over the place working for next to nothing and the national economy (whatever that really is) is in the tank.

Now those Joes that were cheering Reagan/Bush#1/Clinton and their billionaire pals, those Joes are still around but guess who they blame--? Yeah, the cheap labor immigrants. So when I see this thread, I realize that there is just something in the water. In America but also in other similar countries. Shoot at easy targets. In this case, the bargain basement DSLR hobbyist turned professional wedding photographer. Just like with blaming poor immigrants, it's the easiest target for your frustration. But is it the correct target? In both cases, the answer is no.

Though simpler and perhaps comforting, things are usually more complex than assigning unilateral blame to this or that party. Sorry, but that's the real world. In reality, the economy stinks and people are partnering up to make ends meet and raise kids. Marriage is becoming more a survival arrangement than a sacred pact. Therefore the 'big day' has also taken on less significance. As a recent Petapixel article (external link) talked about, when it comes to the photos an amateur can produce with a recent model DSLR, good enough' really has become good enough for most folks on wedding day. So the Craigslist photographers are filling a real and growing niche of folks who would perhaps like some pics of the day (maybe even if ONLY for their old school parents/aunts and uncles) but simply are not willing to put even $1500 into that. Some of them, dare I say a lot of them even, have $3k or $4k to put into it but it just isn't worth it to them as it was the previous generation.

The society is changing in that regard.

And incidentally, the Reagan/blame the immigrants comparison is connected in that many upstanding able-bodied folk are simply no longer able to make ends meet (no less get ahead) working a regular tax paying 9 to 5 job. A part of the reason they can't is because of political decisions made 30 years ago to allow big business to send manufacturing to countries with weak or nonexistent labor laws. What used to be good jobs, no longer pay the bills. And there are far less of those sub-par jobs to be found as well. So people are, perhaps now more than in 80 or 90 years, looking for other things, anything, to supplement their income. Wedding photography being one of those options.

There are still people who have the inclination and coin to drop 4 grand on a wedding photo package but that group is way smaller and that, and larger political decisions made by both corporate beholden Dems and Repubs, needs to be acknowledged as much if not more than blaming the $600 CL wedding photographer.




  
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D. ­ Vance
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Mar 31, 2013 21:11 |  #99

mobei wrote in post #15774097 (external link)
I didn't say anything about calling the IRS.
Since when has the world deteriorated so far that reporting criminal behavior is unethical?
Unbelievable response.:cry:

Riiight here.

mobei wrote in post #15767721 (external link)
tell tale signs of a criminal on social media:
No name posted
no address
No phone number
free email account
no website

Send a email with the link to the taxman.
They take it from there. If you want you can follow up which we did, hence the approx 50%
figure I used. If they fail to comply with tax code they get indicted.
People can call him on me all they want I'm legit.

And methinks that if someone has to rely on hunting down people's skeletons in their closets, so their competition gets shut down, it sounds like they need some skills to set them apart.


I wonder if the video editors on The Titanic ever went, "Sorry, I can't right now. I'm busy synching the Titanic..."

  
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brianodom
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Mar 31, 2013 21:59 |  #100

D. Vance wrote in post #15777061 (external link)
Riiight here.


And methinks that if someone has to rely on hunting down people's skeletons in their closets, so their competition gets shut down, it sounds like they need some skills to set them apart.

once again

bw!


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Luckless
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Apr 01, 2013 06:56 |  #101

D. Vance wrote in post #15777061 (external link)
Riiight here.


And methinks that if someone has to rely on hunting down people's skeletons in their closets, so their competition gets shut down, it sounds like they need some skills to set them apart.

Maybe hunting skeletons IS the skill that sets them apart from the rest? After all, if they're the only one left, then clearly they win and are the 'best'?


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mobei
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Apr 01, 2013 17:09 |  #102

What I think is that very few people on this forum are actually feeding their families with photography.
People in all types of businesses report cheats/criminals when they suspect them.




  
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DocFrankenstein
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Apr 01, 2013 17:29 |  #103

mobei wrote in post #15780057 (external link)
What I think is that very few people on this forum are actually feeding their families with photography.
People in all types of businesses report cheats/criminals when they suspect them.

To you it just seems that way cause you do it so much.

A lot of businesses simply offer a service or a product and get money for it. They don't have to report because the stuff they offer speaks for itself.


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
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mobei
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Apr 01, 2013 18:15 |  #104

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15780147 (external link)
To you it just seems that way cause you do it so much.

A lot of businesses simply offer a service or a product and get money for it. They don't have to report because the stuff they offer speaks for itself.

Your statement screams that you are not feeding your family with your photography.
Anyone in the business will tell you that the crooks are hurting us. (except the exceptional photogs). You don't understand that most photogs are just average, just like 90+% of people in any job. The cliche that you have to be better and people will flock to is not reality in most cases. MOST people purchase based on price.




  
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mobei
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Apr 01, 2013 18:19 |  #105

D. Vance wrote in post #15777061 (external link)
Riiight here.


And methinks that if someone has to rely on hunting down people's skeletons in their closets, so their competition gets shut down, it sounds like they need some skills to set them apart.

I'm the guy with the studio, feeds my family with my photography and does it while fulfilling all my legal obligations and I need more skills?:rolleyes:

I'll add something else: Why should I have to work more hours every week in order to maintain a living because others are breaking the law?




  
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