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Thread started 28 Feb 2013 (Thursday) 08:55
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Sorry, But... Another Super Exciting Lens Recommendation Thread

 
mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 08:55 |  #1

Hey everyone, sorry to add another one of these onto the pile, but it's always nice to hear input from folks who know what they're talking about.

I'm pretty new to this whole thing, but like so many others, have become obsessed quickly. I've got a T4i with the 18-55 kit lens, the 50mm 1.8, and the 55-250 f4, and I'm looking to add another. Again, a pretty standard story.

Since I got the 50, it's probably been on the camera 95% of the time -- it's sharper than the 18-55, faster, offers much better bokeh, etc., and I feel like I've learned a lot even in just a short time working with a prime. The 55-250 is something I'm happy I have for the rare instances when I need something so long (it came in handy at a grade school play a few weeks back), but it's not something I find myself reaching for all that often.

I'm looking for a general purpose lens that's versatile and will offer image quality comparable to the 50mm (or at least better than the 18-55). I'm interested in exploring more street photography, but I also have a 3-year-old who's fun to shoot, and I've come into a situation where I may be doing a series of photos inside bars -- so those last two would tend to involve fairly low light.

I first thought about the 85mm 1.8, just because it gets such good reviews, is affordable, and would be good in low light, but I don't think I have enough uses for something so long right now. And of course I've been looking at the 18-135 STM, the 28-135 USM, and to a lesser extent the 15-85, though that's a little more than I'd like to spend. Ideally, I'd keep it to below $500.

Any advice you might have would be greatly appreciated.




  
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mguffin
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Feb 28, 2013 08:57 |  #2

You should check out the Sigma 30mm f/1.4... The 28-135 is a great lens too, maybe not wide enough of you are going to replace the 18-55. It makes a great general purpose "walk around" lens...


Mike
Nikon D800 ~ Nikon D500
Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG ~ Nikkor 50 f/1.8G ~ Nikkor 85 f/1.8G ~ Nikkor 12-24 f/4 DX ~ Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8 DX ~ Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VR ~ Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 DC ~ Sigma 50-100 f/1.8 DC

  
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dadgummit
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Feb 28, 2013 09:30 |  #3

You can find good copies of the 15-85 used for under $500. that is the best lens you mentioned. In second place I would look at the 18-135, the newer STM model, it is reported to be very good as well.


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mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 09:50 |  #4

Thanks for the responses. I've been intrigued by the 30mm Sigma, but as with the 85 1.8, I just feel like I'm looking for more versatility.

Hadn't really thought of going the used route. Seems to be some good deals on Ebay for the 15-85. It makes me a little nervous (given my inexperience with the hobby), but I could certainly be persuaded. Do you think the 15-85 is fast enough in the mid-range for somewhat low light?




  
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amfoto1
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Feb 28, 2013 10:00 |  #5

Unfortunately the 15-85 (quite good), 28-135 (excellent value used) and 18-135 (good, convenient range) all would merely replace your 18-55 with another "walk around" lens that doesn't have particularly large aperture, so isn't all that usable in low light. Yes, they all would be an improvement over the basic kit lens and all have IS which can help steady your shots... But IS can't help stop subject movement... For that you need a larger aperture and a higher shutter speed. All the zooms being discussed and most in this general price range are even slower f3.5-5.6. One possibility... the Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-IS is under $500 the last time I looked. It's a sharp lens, but it's AF isn't as fast and accurate as some other options. And, it's "only" f2.8. There are no zooms available for Canon that are any faster than f2.8 (and most of those are quite pricey).

I think one or more faster (larger aperture) primes are going to be your best choices...

The Sigma 30/1.4 is a good suggestion. It's two full stops faster than any f2.8 zoom, up to four stops faster than some on the list above. It would complement your 50/1.8 nicely (but might spoil you... it's a much better made, better focusing lens in many situations... next you might want to upgrade your 50mm!). However, the 30/1.4 is known to not be particularly good at focusing in low light, such as in a bar. And, it can be somewhat of a lottery getting a "good copy" of the lens (which is probably why they are on sale now... I bet Sigma is blowing them out and planning to replace with their newer generation lenses that are tunable by the user and held to higher calibration standards).

The Canon 28/1.8 is a possible alternative. It's 2/3 stop slower than the Sigma, but has quality USM focus, is capable of very nice images, and is better built than your 50/1.8 (again, it's going to make you want to upgrade the 50mm). As an EF lens, the Canon is also usable on both crop and full frame, too... should that ever become necessary. The Siggy 30/1.4 is crop only. Even with its matched lens hood, the Canon 28/1.8 also is relatively compact for it's series (i.e., Canon "mid-grade/USM".... a couple steps up from the entry level 50/1.8, but not premium L-series).

The 85/1.8 is similar in build/performance to the 28/1.8 (except that it's a bit larger, as is the 50/1.4). But, 85mm is a "long portrait" tele on a crop sensor camera, where 50mm is a "short portrait" tele and 28mm is a "couple, small group, full length portrait" normal lens. Eventually you might want to add an 85mm too... That's the nature of prime lenses... One is never enough, two is better, three or more is even better still!

Sorry, but primes are always going to be "less versatile" than zooms... You just have to learn to "zoom with your feet".

Wanting to shoot in a bar, if you don't already have one you might want to plan to get an accessory flash, too. Put it on a flash bracket, connected to the camera with an off-camera shoe cord, for better quality shots. Most cameras have built in flashes, but they are anemic, in the worst possible place for redeye and ugly shadows, and they rely upon and drain the camera's battery(ies) pretty rapidly.

Another challenging thing about shooting in a bar is focusing in low light, even with the best lenses and camera systems. Short of a 5D Mark III or 1DX, which are rated to be able to focus at -3 EV, far lower than most previous models, there are other things you can do. Many accessory flashes are capable of emitting a Focus Assist in the form of a near-IR grid that helps the camera and lens focus. (And, yes, the cameras with a built in flash can emit a Focus Assist of sorts, too... But it's an obnoxious series of white light flashes, that drain the battery, can overheat the flash if used a lot, and might make you rather unpopular in bars.) If you don't want to work with flash, you can use only the AF Assist feature, setting the camera to not fire the flash. Or, you can use a transmitter module like the ST-E2 or ST-E3, which is also capable of emitting a near-IR Focus Assist, but is much smaller than a flash.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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Hekay
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Feb 28, 2013 10:07 |  #6

I'm also suggest the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, it's a very versatile focal lengh and since you like so much your 50mm 1.8., am pretty sure you will like a lot the sigma and it will help you improve your photography.
I ownded the 15-85 before it's a great walkaround lens with great IQ, but it's a slow and either boring lens if you like to be somewhat creative.
The 85mm 1.8 is probably too long for your needs, especially on a crop body.


5D III | 35 | 85L II | 135L | 300L II | 16-35L F4 | 24-70L II | URL="http://www.flickr​.com/photos/steve_fuer​st/"]
Flickr[/URL]

  
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mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 11:12 |  #7

amfoto1 wrote in post #15661137 (external link)
Unfortunately the 15-85 (quite good), 28-135 (excellent value used) and 18-135 (good, convenient range) all would merely replace your 18-55 with another "walk around" lens that doesn't have particularly large aperture, so isn't all that usable in low light. Yes, they all would be an improvement over the basic kit lens and all have IS which can help steady your shots... But IS can't help stop subject movement... For that you need a larger aperture and a higher shutter speed. All the zooms being discussed and most in this general price range are even slower f3.5-5.6. One possibility... the Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-IS is under $500 the last time I looked. It's a sharp lens, but it's AF isn't as fast and accurate as some other options. And, it's "only" f2.8. There are no zooms available for Canon that are any faster than f2.8 (and most of those are quite pricey).

I think one or more faster (larger aperture) primes are going to be your best choices...

The Sigma 30/1.4 is a good suggestion. It's two full stops faster than any f2.8 zoom, up to four stops faster than some on the list above. It would complement your 50/1.8 nicely (but might spoil you... it's a much better made, better focusing lens in many situations... next you might want to upgrade your 50mm!). However, the 30/1.4 is known to not be particularly good at focusing in low light, such as in a bar. And, it can be somewhat of a lottery getting a "good copy" of the lens (which is probably why they are on sale now... I bet Sigma is blowing them out and planning to replace with their newer generation lenses that are tunable by the user and held to higher calibration standards).

The Canon 28/1.8 is a possible alternative. It's 2/3 stop slower than the Sigma, but has quality USM focus, is capable of very nice images, and is better built than your 50/1.8 (again, it's going to make you want to upgrade the 50mm). As an EF lens, the Canon is also usable on both crop and full frame, too... should that ever become necessary. The Siggy 30/1.4 is crop only. Even with its matched lens hood, the Canon 28/1.8 also is relatively compact for it's series (i.e., Canon "mid-grade/USM".... a couple steps up from the entry level 50/1.8, but not premium L-series).

The 85/1.8 is similar in build/performance to the 28/1.8 (except that it's a bit larger, as is the 50/1.4). But, 85mm is a "long portrait" tele on a crop sensor camera, where 50mm is a "short portrait" tele and 28mm is a "couple, small group, full length portrait" normal lens. Eventually you might want to add an 85mm too... That's the nature of prime lenses... One is never enough, two is better, three or more is even better still!

Sorry, but primes are always going to be "less versatile" than zooms... You just have to learn to "zoom with your feet".

Wanting to shoot in a bar, if you don't already have one you might want to plan to get an accessory flash, too. Put it on a flash bracket, connected to the camera with an off-camera shoe cord, for better quality shots. Most cameras have built in flashes, but they are anemic, in the worst possible place for redeye and ugly shadows, and they rely upon and drain the camera's battery(ies) pretty rapidly.

Another challenging thing about shooting in a bar is focusing in low light, even with the best lenses and camera systems. Short of a 5D Mark III or 1DX, which are rated to be able to focus at -3 EV, far lower than most previous models, there are other things you can do. Many accessory flashes are capable of emitting a Focus Assist in the form of a near-IR grid that helps the camera and lens focus. (And, yes, the cameras with a built in flash can emit a Focus Assist of sorts, too... But it's an obnoxious series of white light flashes, that drain the battery, can overheat the flash if used a lot, and might make you rather unpopular in bars.) If you don't want to work with flash, you can use only the AF Assist feature, setting the camera to not fire the flash. Or, you can use a transmitter module like the ST-E2 or ST-E3, which is also capable of emitting a near-IR Focus Assist, but is much smaller than a flash.

Thanks for the extensive response. Lots to think about, for sure. It's amazing how quickly you learn that no lens can do it all. It's also tough, just starting out, to really have a feel for just how bad something like the 15-85 or the 18-135 STM would be in low light without ever actually testing 'em out.

I know the primes are the best solution in terms of image quality, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the compromise is sufficient for my purposes. It sounds like I'd probably get by, but wind up being unhappy not too far down the line.

I have been thinking about adding a 430 EXII as well. Not sure I could swing both the lens and the flash at the same time, though.

I think I can get my hands on the 28-135 USM to try for a few days. I don't know if testing that out will help make things clearer, but it seems to be fairly similar in quality (same max aperture too) to the other ones I was considering, so I figure that's a good first step. We'll see.




  
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jdpence
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Feb 28, 2013 11:39 |  #8

Personally, I would add a flash before buying another lens, especially if you're happy (for the moment) with the 50 1.8. My flash pretty much lives on my camera and I couldn't live without it.


Jeremy
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https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=591727

  
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mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 11:45 |  #9

jdpence wrote in post #15661445 (external link)
Personally, I would add a flash before buying another lens, especially if you're happy (for the moment) with the 50 1.8. My flash pretty much lives on my camera and I couldn't live without it.

Interesting. Mind if I ask about the rest of your setup?




  
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jdpence
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Feb 28, 2013 11:52 |  #10

mcon22 wrote in post #15661462 (external link)
Interesting. Mind if I ask about the rest of your setup?

My current everyday setup is a 5D Mark III with 24-105L and 580EX II, but I used the same flash with a Rebel XTi and 17-85 IS lens for several years. Learning to use flash improved my photographs much more than any lens purchase has.


Jeremy
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https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=591727

  
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ptcanon3ti
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Feb 28, 2013 11:53 |  #11

mcon22 wrote in post #15661358 (external link)
Thanks for the extensive response. Lots to think about, for sure. It's amazing how quickly you learn that no lens can do it all. It's also tough, just starting out, to really have a feel for just how bad something like the 15-85 or the 18-135 STM would be in low light without ever actually testing 'em out.

I know the primes are the best solution in terms of image quality, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the compromise is sufficient for my purposes. It sounds like I'd probably get by, but wind up being unhappy not too far down the line.

I have been thinking about adding a 430 EXII as well. Not sure I could swing both the lens and the flash at the same time, though.

I think I can get my hands on the 28-135 USM to try for a few days. I don't know if testing that out will help make things clearer, but it seems to be fairly similar in quality (same max aperture too) to the other ones I was considering, so I figure that's a good first step. We'll see.

lol...it isn't like the lens can't see at all. the 15-85 is a really great walk around lens. Very sharp and a very good IS. I also have the 28-135...again great IQ and very useful.

btw...I've NEVER seen a 15-85 under $500...so if you do buy it.


Paul
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mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 12:16 |  #12

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #15661497 (external link)
lol...it isn't like the lens can't see at all. the 15-85 is a really great walk around lens. Very sharp and a very good IS. I also have the 28-135...again great IQ and very useful.

btw...I've NEVER seen a 15-85 under $500...so if you do buy it.

Well, I wasn't saying that they're necessarily terrible, or even bad, or even that they wouldn't be perfectly sufficient for my purposes. I'm just saying I have no idea.

There's actually a 15-85 with a $450 BIN right now, which seems crazy. I don't know that I'm ready to pull the trigger on anything today, but it's certainly tempting.




  
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mguffin
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Feb 28, 2013 12:27 |  #13

mcon22 wrote in post #15661573 (external link)
There's actually a 15-85 with a $450 BIN right now, which seems crazy. I don't know that I'm ready to pull the trigger on anything today, but it's certainly tempting.

Wow, that's a great price... however, it's gone already... next time you see a price like that, you have to react, not think... The lowest BIN is $545...


Mike
Nikon D800 ~ Nikon D500
Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG ~ Nikkor 50 f/1.8G ~ Nikkor 85 f/1.8G ~ Nikkor 12-24 f/4 DX ~ Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8 DX ~ Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VR ~ Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 DC ~ Sigma 50-100 f/1.8 DC

  
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mnphotos
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Feb 28, 2013 12:30 |  #14

Here's another versatile option.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …70mm_F2_8_4_DC_​Macro.html (external link)

Or the newer version of that lens.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …0mm_f_2_8_4_DC_​Macro.html (external link)


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mcon22
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Feb 28, 2013 14:09 |  #15

Wow, that looks like an interesting option. I'm gonna read up on it a bit. Thanks a lot.




  
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Sorry, But... Another Super Exciting Lens Recommendation Thread
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