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Thread started 05 Mar 2013 (Tuesday) 03:35
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Canon FF v Fuji X sensor

 
h14nha
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Mar 05, 2013 03:35 |  #1

Why aren't landscape shooters ( I've singled them out due to the rumoured slow AF ) being enticed away by Fuji's X series sensors ?? Smaller body, lighter body, availability of cheaper lens, superb ISO performance coupled with FF standard IQ. Whats holding people off ??
All 7d ( or other crop ) users like myself looking for higher IQ for landscapes, if we upgrade to FF then our standard zoom 17-XXmm, has to be changed anyway, so why not keep the crop and go Fuji instead. I haven't mentioned Sony/Olympus, as the Fuji is rumoured to be a FF beater...........


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JeffreyG
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Mar 05, 2013 05:24 |  #2

I don't know, what does the lens selection look like? I'm fairly ignorant of the Fuji system. Is there a comprehensive set of tilt-shift lenses available as there are for Canon?

If you do have a Fuji X along with all the lenses you need and your tripod all packed and ready, is the kit much different in size and weight compared to something like a 6D or D600? I often find by the time I'm ready to go shoot the kind of stuff I shoot, the relative size of the camera body is almost negligible.


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Lowner
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Mar 05, 2013 07:20 |  #3

Like JeffreyG I have no knowledge of Fuji. I assume by "superb ISO performance" you mean excellent low ISO performance and low noise, but it would need to be as good as Nikons D800E before I'd even begin to show any interest when we are all assuming that Canon are as we speak beavering away at a response. If not then I will move back to Nikon, but am in no hurry.


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Dmab
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Mar 05, 2013 07:23 |  #4

SInce this this a Canon forum, it'd be the same reason (among others) why people don't move over to Nikon or Sony at the drop of a hat...we all invested heavily into the Canon brand.


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LowriderS10
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Mar 05, 2013 07:44 |  #5

Oh boy, where do I start?

- A Fuji X-Pro1 costs as much as my new-in-box (but refurbished, zero issues) 5D Mark II did, so there's no cost advantage.
- You lose a stop of DOF...it's nice that they have a $600 35 1.4, for example, but that's the equivalent of a $100 50 1.8 on FF. Or, I could get a $500-600 50 1.4 and have the same FOV, same low light capabilities *AND* pick up a stop of DOF.
- No ultrawide zooms (it's my go-to lens...I have a 16-35L II on my 5D2 99% of the time). Fuji's widest is a 14mm f2.8 (for $900)...which is a 21mm equivalent...not wide enough for me and even then it's a prime, not a zoom (I love primes, but for a walkaround I prefer a zoom).
- No truly fast short/medium telephoto lens (ie: for street photography). I've been using a 100 f2 and now a 135L f2 for street photography. The closest Fuji comes is a 60 f2.4, which translates roughly to 90mm f3.5 in terms of DOF...stop it down a little to sharpen it up and you're easily at f4 equivalent for DOF...not exactly something I dream about for background blur...especially considering I picked up my minty mint used (but there's no way anyone would be able to tell it's not brand new) for around $750.

An X-Pro + kit lens (to have something versatile) + 14mm + 60mm new (since you can't really find this stuff used) would cost as much as my refurb 5D2 (new) and used, but minty mint 16-35L II and 135L...(OR my old setupi of 5D2 (new) + 16-35L II (used) + 100 f2 (new) would be CHEAPER!!)...to me, considering it's wider and more bokehlicious, that's a no-brainer.

EDIT: So I've been reading up on this, and apparently Fuji is supposed to bring out an arsenal of lenses:

27mm F2.8
23mm F1.4
55-200mm F3.5-4.8 OIS
56mm F1.4
10-24mm F4 OIS

The first three are fairly ho-hum...the first one is the equivalent of the 40 2.8 Pancake on a FF, but of course you lose 1 stop of DOF...will it be priced at $175? Doubtful. Also, the 40 Pancake is an amazing little lens...it'll be hard to beat as far as IQ goes. The next one makes a good 35 equivalent (with 1.4 for speed, 1.8 equivalent for DOF), I've just never been all that excited by that focal length...the tele is just...I don't know...seems like basically the equivalent of any run of the mill 70-300, nothing special there. It will likely be a good lens, but by no means a 70-200 f2.8 (by the way, another reason to stay away from this...at 200mm equivalent, the Fuji will likely give you around f4, which is f5.6 equivalent...that's a far cry from what the 70-200 f2.8 offers both in terms of bokeh and light sensitivity).

Now, the last two could be interesting. the 56 1.4 translates into an 85 1.4, which is great, with the DOF of an 85 1.8...not bad, but I'm willing to bet that it'll cost about as much as a Sigma 85 1.4, while only giving as much DOF as an 85 1.8 (I'm so hung up on the DOF equivalency because people buy these lenses not only for the speed, but for the bokeh as well). I bought my 16-35L II for the speed (replacing my 17-40L f4, but other lenses...such as my old 100 f2 or the 135L f2 I bought specifically for shallow DOF work, more than their low-light capabilities).

Finally, the 10-24 f4, which is a 15-36 f4 equivalent...I like the range (basically the perfect walkaround for me)...BUT...it's a stop too slow. It's a stop slower than the 16-35L II (sure, it's going to be cheaper than the 16-35L II, but I doubt it'll be cheaper than the 17-40L, and I definitely need/use the 2.8 a lot...the Fuji X system would not give me the option of a truly fast UWA zoom)...and it'll have the DOF equivalent of an f5.6 lens on FF. Ultrawide zooms are by no means meant to be DOF monsters, but I do like playing around with f2.8 every now and again. The results (from a bokeh standpoint) are not amazing, but they're passable and allow for a certain amount of creativity....f5.6, however, is pretty much everything-is-in-focus for a UWA.


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taemo
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Mar 05, 2013 09:16 |  #6

to be honest, this is exactly my plan.
selling my 5D Mark II + 17-40L, then I will be using my X100s with wide-angle converter lens, granted it's only 28mm I think it will be wide enough for most landscape/travel photography.
and the best thing is it's way smaller and lighter to carry around than a DSLR.

here's some landscape shots with the X100

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8371350453_aed9b90c9f.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itaemo/83713504​53/  (external link)
DSCF6995 (external link) by earl.dieta (external link), on Flickr
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8234/8373951489_ae8bc6871d.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itaemo/83739514​89/  (external link)
DSCF7105 (external link) by earl.dieta (external link), on Flickr
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8479050794_17363780c2.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itaemo/84790507​94/  (external link)
DSCF9934 (external link) by earl.dieta (external link), on Flickr
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8233/8479050634_7044977e19.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/itaemo/84790506​34/  (external link)
DSCF9979 (external link) by earl.dieta (external link), on Flickr

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LowriderS10
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Mar 05, 2013 09:28 |  #7

Those are great pics...I guess it comes down to personal preference...I don't even buy compacts that don't go down to 24mm. For me, having 28mm as my widest is simply not an option.

I shoot a lot of landscape/cityscape as well as a ton of architecture...if you look at my Flickr, the majority of my shots are around the 16mm mark...imagine those at 28mm, they'd be garbage...


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jaomul
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Mar 05, 2013 09:35 |  #8

Saw one of these at a photo fair last night with 2 identical images sooc (approx 8x10 inches)shot in low light @ ISO 200 and ISO 6400. It had to be pointed out to me which was which and even on inspection the differences were so small as to be non-existent. I'd say this is some piece of kit


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taemo
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Mar 05, 2013 09:38 |  #9

true, personally for me the sweet spot for WA is 20-21 (my dream WA landscape lens is the Zeiss 21) so I wasn't really sure either if 28mm will cut it for me but I guess it's just something I'll have to adapt my photography to.


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ed ­ rader
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Mar 05, 2013 10:22 as a reply to  @ taemo's post |  #10

great sensors but lousy focussing and clunky menus. i owned the x100 for awhile until it contracted SAB. DSLR is much more robust.


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h4ppydaze
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Mar 05, 2013 12:56 |  #11

I love/hate the X-Pro1. I love the build, handling, and looks. I don't like the *hint* of lag on the EVF (I actually don't like EVF's at all), the slow and hunty AF, and they could use some more lenses. Maybe when they work out the beats a little better I could think about it. Then again it'd just be a neat-o toy, I don't see it replacing DSLR's any time soon.

Also Lowrider is on to something with the shallow DOF. Not necessary for all kinds of work (especially not landscape) but it's more versatility that is really nice to have. Also as good as the X-Pro1 is in low light (very good), it still can't compete with the newest FF sensors. A FF X series though? Sign me up. Would probably cost 4k though.

Basically it's a good solution for some (or even most) people but there are compromises.




  
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Hogloff
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Mar 05, 2013 14:35 |  #12
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JeffreyG wrote in post #15678488 (external link)
I don't know, what does the lens selection look like? I'm fairly ignorant of the Fuji system. Is there a comprehensive set of tilt-shift lenses available as there are for Canon?

If you do have a Fuji X along with all the lenses you need and your tripod all packed and ready, is the kit much different in size and weight compared to something like a 6D or D600? I often find by the time I'm ready to go shoot the kind of stuff I shoot, the relative size of the camera body is almost negligible.

Equivalent package is much lighter and less bulk than with the 6D/D600 setup. Not only are the cameras smaller, the equivalent lens are much smaller and compact. Biggest issue, at least for now, is the availability of lens...but that is slowly changing.

I'd love a compact system to save wear and tear on the body, but in the end, it needs to deliver results that I can print large. I don't believe mirrorless systems are there quite yet.

I use my X100 for travel and street photos and it really excells at that. I would not even entertain taking out my 5D2 with a 35L on it when I can just pack my X100.




  
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ed ­ rader
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Mar 05, 2013 14:39 |  #13

Hogloff wrote in post #15680172 (external link)
Equivalent package is much lighter and less bulk than with the 6D/D600 setup. Not only are the cameras smaller, the equivalent lens are much smaller and compact. Biggest issue, at least for now, is the availability of lens...but that is slowly changing.

I'd love a compact system to save wear and tear on the body, but in the end, it needs to deliver results that I can print large. I don't believe mirrorless systems are there quite yet.

I use my X100 for travel and street photos and it really excells at that. I would not even entertain taking out my 5D2 with a 35L on it when I can just pack my X100.

compacts are changing rapidly. i'll wait till the fields sorts out a bit and improves before i would consider a complete switch.


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Hogloff
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Mar 05, 2013 14:40 |  #14
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ed rader wrote in post #15679265 (external link)
great sensors but lousy focussing and clunky menus. i owned the x100 for awhile until it contracted SAB. DSLR is much more robust.

The SAB was a design issue which Fuji fixed for free. The slow AF and some of the clunky menus were corrected with the latest firmware release. I find my X100 very usable for street shooting. Sure, shooting soccer with it would be a pain, but then who in their right minds would be a mirrorless system to shoot sports or birds in flight etc...




  
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ed ­ rader
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Mar 05, 2013 14:43 |  #15

Hogloff wrote in post #15680195 (external link)
The SAB was a design issue which Fuji fixed for free. The slow AF and some of the clunky menus were corrected with the latest firmware release. I find my X100 very usable for street shooting. Sure, shooting soccer with it would be a pain, but then who in their right minds would be a mirrorless system to shoot sports or birds in flight etc...

SAB is still occuring AFAIK. out of warranty repair for SAB is $700 or so. i would never feel safe with just the x100. i liked the camera and it put out great files even at iso 3200 but i just didn't trust it anymore.


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