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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 14 Mar 2013 (Thursday) 19:22
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High speed sync

 
Chadookydo
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Mar 14, 2013 19:22 |  #1

Is it true that only canon speedlites can sync at high speeds with canon cameras or is there a good third party alternative you can recommend? I want to get a good flash that will allow high speed sync for outside fill.


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bobbyz
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Mar 14, 2013 19:28 |  #2

Look at the cheetah light thread.


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24Peter
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Mar 14, 2013 19:42 |  #3

You must be new here :)
https://thephotogadget​.com …gh-speed-sync-flash-canon (external link)


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Wilt
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Mar 14, 2013 20:03 |  #4

You need to realize that a faster synch speed comes at a cost! There is a finite amount of electricity which is stored during recycle. If you output all of that charge in a very bried flash of light, it is BRIGHT. But when you have the flash emit light during a long period of time -- that it takes for the narrow shutter SLIT opening to move from top to bottom of the frame -- it has to emit a MUCH LOWER intensity of light!

Typically shifting into HSS shutter speed will cost from -2EV to -3EV in intensity, and the power drops an additional -1EV for each 1EV faster shutter speed. That means that your flash reaches HALF the distance or less, even at a modest 0.33EV faster than X-synch speed...not what you want to happen when the sun is already pushing flash power to its limits.


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Chadookydo
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Mar 14, 2013 20:04 |  #5

LOL. Do I have to preface every post that I'm new. I'm sure that any question posted has been asked here before, some more than others and others to death. The search really didn't bring back a spot on answer. Thanks for the link. I'll certainly check it out.


Body - 20D & 7D -Lenses~ 50mm f/1.8 II ~ 24-105mm f/4L ~ 17-40mm f/4L ~ 85mm f/1.8 ~ 55-250mm f/4-5.6 ~ 70mm-200mm f/2.8L IS II ~ 400mm f/5.6L ~ 430EX II flash ~ 2 Yongnuo 560 II

  
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dmward
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Mar 14, 2013 22:46 |  #6

First; High Speed Sync is the current incarnation of Flat Power Sync (FP-sync) which was implemented with slow burning flash bulbs (flat power) and cloth focal plane shutters.

Canon emulated the flat power by rapidly cycling its speedlites (50KHz) to extend the flash duration to accommodate the shutter travel during high shutter speeds. Because the power reservoir (capacitor) has a finite capacity that meant that the light output would have to be less for longer rather than more for shorter. (Wilt's numbers are about right.)

Cheetah Light has a feature, H mode, that is similar to the Canon rapid cycling method. It offers more power than a Canon speedlite. I've been testing its capabilities for Edward and can confirm that it works well. I've been able to shoot at ISO 100, 1/8000, F1.4 which is sufficient to under expose the sunlit ambient background while highlighting the foreground subject.

This picture also illustrates that, given some care in picking angle etc. a speedlite on the camera can fill in nicely while under exposing a sun lit background.


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morph2_7
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Mar 15, 2013 13:58 |  #7

I purchased YN568EX for the same reason, that is, to be able to use it as fill light in bright daylight so the sky won't be overexposed.

Here's the question, how far can I be from the subject to be able to use HSS flash (on hot shoe) effectively as fill light? I guess I can try it myself but I've never had an opportunity yet.




  
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dmward
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Mar 15, 2013 17:15 |  #8

morph2_7 wrote in post #15718628 (external link)
I purchased YN568EX for the same reason, that is, to be able to use it as fill light in bright daylight so the sky won't be overexposed.

Here's the question, how far can I be from the subject to be able to use HSS flash (on hot shoe) effectively as fill light? I guess I can try it myself but I've never had an opportunity yet.

I don't know about the YN568EX but the Canon speedlites have a readout in the LCD that gives the effective range. That readout works with HSS as well.

The example was shot with a 16-35mm at probably close to 16mm so I wasn't too far away.

I also tend to shoot in Av mode for this sort of thing so the aperture was probably near wide open with minus exposure compensation and maybe a little plus flash exposure compensation. Often times it looks dark on the LCD but a little exposure pull in Lightroom gets the dress and skin where I want them.
And, I tend to use manual zoom and have it out toward 50mm or so, to key in on the subject in the center of the frame. No sense wasting light on the sidewalk or sky. :-)


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morph2_7
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Mar 15, 2013 17:33 |  #9

Good tips. Thanks David. I didn't think of using flash zoom until you mentioned it. I'll give it a go when I have a chance.




  
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Wilt
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Mar 15, 2013 18:33 |  #10

morph2_7 wrote in post #15718628 (external link)
I purchased YN568EX for the same reason, that is, to be able to use it as fill light in bright daylight so the sky won't be overexposed.

Here's the question, how far can I be from the subject to be able to use HSS flash (on hot shoe) effectively as fill light? I guess I can try it myself but I've never had an opportunity yet.

Let us assume a Canon 580EXII, and the factory claim of GN130 when covering the view of a 'normal' lens (50mm on FF)...

  • it EQUALS the power of the sun with f/16 out to 8', at full power
  • assuming it loses -2EV at one shutter speed above X-synch 1/250 on APS-C body (some folks have seen -3EV losses with some 580EXII units...'it depends') that means at 1/320 f/16 you can reach 2'
  • or at f/2 you can reach 16'

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ShotByTom
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Mar 15, 2013 18:45 |  #11

Save your money and start out with a YN-568EX flash, they are about $160 on amazon.


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morph2_7
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Mar 15, 2013 19:01 |  #12

Wilt wrote in post #15719506 (external link)
Let us assume a Canon 580EXII, and the factory claim of GN130 when covering the view of a 'normal' lens (50mm on FF)...

  • it EQUALS the power of the sun with f/16 out to 8', at full power
  • assuming it loses -2EV at one shutter speed above X-synch 1/250 on APS-C body (some folks have seen -3EV losses with some 580EXII units...'it depends') that means at 1/320 f/16 you can reach 2'
  • or at f/2 you can reach 16'

I'm a complete newbie so it's going to be a while to process that info :p
Can we gain what we lose (due to weaker burst of light) by adding, say, +2 FEC? Does FEC work in HSS mode?




  
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Wilt
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Mar 15, 2013 19:21 |  #13

morph2_7 wrote in post #15719574 (external link)
I'm a complete newbie so it's going to be a while to process that info :p
Can we gain what we lose (due to weaker burst of light) by adding, say, +2 FEC? Does FEC work in HSS mode?

FEC adjusts the METER, it asks for an adjustment to power, but it cannot create power where there is none.

Imagine this...a recipe calls for a quart of water.
Via FEC +2...the recipe now asks for a gallon of water (4x as much)

Your container holds 32 ounces, and no matter what you do you will never get 128 ounces out of it in a single fill...your flash capacitor is the container, it is fixed in size.


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dmward
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Mar 15, 2013 21:35 |  #14

Even though the external and internal batteries are trying hard to refill the capacitor there isn't enough time for them to have much affect. As Wilt points out. There is only so much energy available to create the light. That's why I tend to shoot at wider apertures and with wide angle lenses to get close with on camera flash. If speedlite is on a stand then I may use a longer lens to get the speedlite close but still out of the frame.

Recently I've been testing a Cheetah Light that has more power than Canon speedlite and offers an H mode that is essentially High Speed Sync. It too uses the rapid cycling of the flash to flatten the power output for the duration of the shutter travel at speeds beyond x-sync.

It will give good light trough a modifier at about 8 feet with the shutter at 1/8000, ISO 100 F1.4 which under exposes the ambient sun lit background. There is a thread about the light here; https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=12700​39&page=54


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morph2_7
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Mar 16, 2013 00:17 |  #15

Got it. Thanks for the replies.




  
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High speed sync
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