Mirrorless gurus...help me. I think I want a NEX-6...wise choice?

Hi gang...for the past year or so I've been looking at a mirrorless body to take travelling with me. (I travel a lot and it's not always wise to show up with $5,000+ - when new - worth of equipment). Right now my travel setup is my 5D2 + 16-35L II since I loooove wide angle stuff. Here are my criteria for a camera:

- Must have at least 16mm equivalent wide angle zoom
- Must have great high ISO performance (I do quite a bit of interior shooting in churches, etc)
- Must have lots of physical buttons, preferably customizeable.

Nice but not essential:
- In-body stabilization
- Bigger sensor for narrow DOF stuff (most important on this list)
- Weather sealing
- A decent 80-100mm equivalent fast lens

Therefore, the Fuji is out, since it doesn't have an ultrawide. Same with the EOS-M (I'm not going to buy an adapter and a 10-22, that's just silly).

That leaves M4/3 and Sony.

OM-D:
- I like that it has lots of buttons, though I hear bad things about them (too small, etc)
- I like the OVF, though the resolution seems to lag behind the Sony's.
- I like the weather sealing, but it's kind of pointless, since the lens I'd have on it (7-14mm) isn't weather sealed...so I couldn't have it out in the elements anyways.
- I like the in-body stabilization, but the Sony's UWA is stabilized in the lens, so that's really a non-issue
- Coolest design of any mirrorless (in my mind), that's a pro for me, but also a con because it's also the most likely to get recognized as something unique (I worry about theft)

NEX-6:
- Very high resolution OVF
- Boring, but much more stealthy design, which is kind of the point, I want to go as unnoticed as possible...the closest I can get to looking like a cheap P&S without sacrificing IQ, the happier I am
- BIG SENSOR!! With a fast prime this would mean nice bokeh shots...something that's harder to do with the little M4/3 sensor
- Aperture, shutter speed dials, plus a quick button for ISO in the perfect place...I can change my 3 main things just as easily as on my DSLR...huge plus.
- Great high ISO performance
- The 10-18 seems to be much nicer built than the M4/3's 7-14, AND the 10-18 accepts filters (huge plus, as I like playing around with NDs).
- Goes down to ISO 100...most other mirrorless only go down to ISO 200...I like lower ISOs for shooting waterfalls, fountains, etc during the day. ISO 100 is easily my most-used sensitivity.
- Quite a bit cheaper than the OM-D.

Why not NEX-5 or NEX-7:
- I hate the NEX-5's lack of buttons/dials and reliance on the screen...I've shot with them, and haven't been a fan.
- The NEX-7 is great, but I don't really see 3 point of the extra money. The 3 dials are nice, but I can just as easily make do with 2 dials, it'll be just like my Canons. Also, the NEX-7s seem to have issues with UWAs and colour cast and from the samples I've seen, the NEX-6 actually has better high-ISO performance.

So...

I'm thinking of buying the NEX-6 body only plus the 10-18. A friend of mine has a 16mm pancake plus the kit 18-55 lens, which I could get for free or pretty damn close to it (though I'd mostly be using the 10-18).

Have I missed anything? Any ideas? Suggestions?

If you got this far with reading...thank you, I appreciate it!

Seems like a good choice.

LowriderS10 wrote in post #15717251
Therefore, the Fuji is out, since it doesn't have an ultrawide.

fyi
http://rokinon.com/pro​duct.php?id=195

auto-clicker wrote in post #15717688
fyi
http://rokinon.com/pro​duct.php?id=195

But that's a fisheye, not a rectilinear wide angle, what the OP is looking for.

Sounds like a great choice to me...Go for it!

Or you could get a rebel or d5200 and an ultrawide for probably less money (as price of the gear seams to be one of your concerns). The mirrorless cameras are great, I love them, but unless you really want the reduced size and weight, a small dslr is still better for most applications.

botw wrote in post #15717588
Seems like a good choice.

Thanks

auto-clicker wrote in post #15717688
fyi
http://rokinon.com/pro​duct.php?id=195

Thanks, that's a good suggestion (I love how fast that thing is!) but there are several things wrong with that lens for what I'm looking for:
- It's a prime...I'm like to travel with one lens (UWA zoom) or at most two (UWA zoom plus an very light, fast prime...in my crop days that was a 50 1.8, then when I got the 5D2 it was the 100 f2, but I sold that in favour of the 135L, so now I don't have a travel fast prime).
- Fish-eye...fun toy, but not really what I'm looking for to document a trip of a lifetime.
- No AF...I know especially that wide you don't really need it, but I like to have it.
- It's fairly hefty...more than twice the weight of the Sony UWA zoom!

rrblint wrote in post #15718317
Sounds like a great choice to me...Go for it!

Thanks...I have one year to figure it out, and as much as I want to run out and buy it today, the smart thing to do is wait at least 6 months...in that time I'll see if anything incredible gets dropped on the market (waiting for an updated OM-D, though that'll likely have the small sensor too)...and everyone just released a bunch of cameras, so I doubt it...still, at least the price of all this gear (both the body and the lens I want have been introduced in the past 6 months) should go down a bit! I'm going backpacking to Japan and Taiwan for 3 weeks this summer...may be an interesting place to give it a test run...hmmm....

botw wrote in post #15718375
Or you could get a rebel or d5200 and an ultrawide for probably less money (as price of the gear seams to be one of your concerns). The mirrorless cameras are great, I love them, but unless you really want the reduced size and weight, a small dslr is still better for most applications.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, I generally tell people to go entry-level DSLR (or high-end P&S) instead of mirrorless.

However, I'll be backpacking for at least 3 months, so size/weight are of some concern. A Rebel T4i + Tokina 11-16mm (the route I would likely take) weighs EXACTLY twice as much (1,140g) as a NEX-6 + the Sony 10-18 (570g). That's a fair bit of difference, when it's around my neck/in a backpack for that long of a period of time.

My other MASSIVE concern (and this is over and above the size/weight issue) is appearance. I'm worried about theft/being noticed. Even when I had smaller bodies (xxD), with the Tokina, it was constantly being noticed and commented on...it's a big lens, it's about 30mm/1 inch wider (barrel) than the Sony lens...roughly a 50% increase.

I want as close to a P&S look as possible, while retaining a big sensor. Sure the Sony lens is a stop slower than the Tokina, but it has a good stabilization system that'll more than make up for that, and with a UWA, you can't REALLY take advantage of the DOF advantages of a faster lens.

Also, Sony has a pretty reasonably priced (I can get it here in Korea for around 220 bucks) 50 1.8 which is similar in size/weight (actually a little heavier!) to the Canon Nifty Fifty. However, the Sony has image stabilization, which, while not necessary, may come in handy for lowering the ISO when shooting static objects in low light...I could have the NEX6 + UWA zoom + fast prime come in at less weight than just my 5D2 body!

I've been looking at mirrorless setups for the last while. IMO NEX 7 seems to be the most feature rich and the sensor technology is great.

NEX 6 is probably not that far behind. Interesting choice of focal lengths. What would your second lens be?

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15718796
I've been looking at mirrorless setups for the last while. IMO NEX 7 seems to be the most feature rich and the sensor technology is great.

NEX 6 is probably not that far behind. Interesting choice of focal lengths. What would your second lens be?

Yeah, I was initially looking at the NEX-7 as well, because from a handling perspective, I liked the 3 dial setup...then I realized, that I'd be just as well off with two dials and a dedicated ISO button (after all, that's what every Canon I've owned had). The dedicated mode dial at the top is extremely helpful for me, however, since I can spin it from M to Auto and hand it over to someone to take a picture of me (I'll be travelling alone).

I've looked at a lot of samples, and I'm convinced that at higher ISOs, the NEX-6 has an ever so slight advantage...I think 24MP may just be a little too much for an APS-C sensor for Sony right now. 16 is plenty to work with and yields much smaller file sizes (a good thing, since when I went to Europe I came back with something like 50 gigs of photos).

I'm not really seeing any features on the NEX-7 that would be of advantage to me...did I miss something? The NEX-6, however (aside from being cheaper) has the perfect button/dial setup, the same EVF, an equally good sensor and some cool downloadable apps, like a really good time-lapse program, which I'd use the hell out of!

When I went to Europe for a month, I took my 5D2 + 16-35L II, when I went to China/Japan, I took the 5D2/16-35/100 f2, and in the Philippines, Korea, etc, I used to rock the 1D3/16-35/Nifty Fifty...I'm really happy with that set of lenses on trips...so I'm thinking of doing one lens for sure: NEX-6 + 10-18 (15-27 equivalent) and possibly throwing in a 50 1.8 for street candids/low light/bokeh/fun shots.

I really disliked the NEX 7 ergonomics. I preferred the 5n (and the 6 when I tried it briefly in store). The 6 is supposed to have better AF and noise performance than the 7, so unless you absolutely need the 7's greater resolution, I think the 6 is the preferred alternative.

I picked up a Panasonic G3 for $250 brand new, it may not be the best camera but it is 90% of the camera that the OMD is (minus the image stabilization). The money you saved could be better spent at some of the excellent m43 glass as well!

botw wrote in post #15718894
I really disliked the NEX 7 ergonomics. I preferred the 5n (and the 6 when I tried it briefly in store). The 6 is supposed to have better AF and noise performance than the 7, so unless you absolutely need the 7's greater resolution, I think the 6 is the preferred alternative.

This is what I'm thinking. I've been teaching/shooting alongside a friend with a NEX-5N and I love the images from her camera, but I hate the UI. I'm just not a fan of touchscreens. The NEX-6 seems to have the best AF of the bunch, and yeah, slightly less noise...I definitely don't need 24MP...I think people are getting carried away...I remember when we used to drool over 10 MP cameras...if 16MP was enough for pros up until a few years ago, I'm sure it'll be enough for me on a backpacking trip haha.

billybookcase wrote in post #15719074
I picked up a Panasonic G3 for $250 brand new, it may not be the best camera but it is 90% of the camera that the OMD is (minus the image stabilization). The money you saved could be better spent at some of the excellent m43 glass as well!

While the G3 is an impressive camera...it looks to be lagging behind the OM-D and the NEX-6 by about a stop when it comes to high ISO IQ. That, coupled with the relatively slow (f4) UWA I'd be looking at (Panny 7-14) and the lack of stabilization on both (if I went OM-D, it would be in the body, on the Sony it would be in the lens), is too much of a compromise, I think. Plus, I'm really not a fan of touch screen UIs. I like my cameras with lots of buttons and dials, especially if they can be customized. But thanks for your suggestion, I really appreciate it....please keep the suggestions coming, the more you toss my way, the more reading I do and the more I find out! (IE: I didn't know about Panasonic's click-able shutter speed/aperture wheel until I just looked up the G3 because of you ...that's pretty nifty!) Also, the G3 is significantly taller than the NEX-6, and starts looking more serious (due to the DSLR-like EVF placement)...something I'm trying to avoid. But...like I said, thanks for your suggestion, I have time to research this and the more suggestions you guys throw my way, the better I can educate myself and make a decision I'll be happy with in the end!!

EDIT: I keep forgetting about this...as much as I love the idea of the Panasonic 7-14, I'm not a fan of two things:
1: No accommodation for filters. Lately I've been using my variable ND filter quite a bit, and I like the images it produces...
2: (a lesser issue, but still an issue) the hood is not removable. I'm trying to be as stealthy as possible, so on the Sony, I'd probably use the hood on an as-needed basis, to cut down on size...this is not an option with the Panasonic. Too bad, because I'm reading great things about that lens...still in the running with an OM-D body...but it's a hard sell considering the lens alone falls short of the Sony in a few areas).

botw wrote in post #15718894
I really disliked the NEX 7 ergonomics. I preferred the 5n (and the 6 when I tried it briefly in store). The 6 is supposed to have better AF and noise performance than the 7, so unless you absolutely need the 7's greater resolution, I think the 6 is the preferred alternative.

IMO in terms of philosophy of design, nex7 is just different.

There's two approaches. You can make an "intuitive" interface which requires no previous knowledge and any user can operate it. Apple is embracing that mentality recently.

On the other hand, you can design a function based interface requiring a learning curve in the beginning. But the features are more easily accessible overall, and once one gets past the learning curve the productivity is much higher.

It's like the stupid QWERTY keyboard instead of steeper curve better ergonomic designs like a chorded keyboard, where you don't have to move the fingers at all!

I suspect NEX 7 has a steeper learning curve, but it's more flexible in use later.

Could be Doc. I ended up keeping the M after being a NEX shooter for years, so I guess I like the intuitive. (I have never been bothered by the controls on my 1 or 5 series though). I still liked the 5n more than the 7. Just smaller and more user friendly for what I was doing with it.