Sell my t4i and buy a 7d?

Anthon wrote in post #15720832
He doesn't actually have it yet. He was looking to purchase it.

For this reason, I think EF-S is a waste of money. If you are prepared to pay this much for a lens, than you are serious about photography. FF will always be better than crop, and FF is getting really affordable lately - so you will go FF sooner or later.

We will be seeing less cropped cameras and more FFs in the future.

Elitist much?

I'll put the AF and FPS of my 7D up against your 5DII, for shooting action shots, any day.

And the only way FF is getting more affordable, is if you go w/ older technology (5Dc), or buy used. A 5DIII is hardly what I would call 'affordable', when compared to other options, and I think most consider the 6D a step back when compared to the 5DII.

And since there will be less APS-C bodies going forward, why is the 70D just around the corner, and the 7D II due by the Fall? Also, if lenses like the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS are a 'waste of money', and not for people that are 'serious about photography', why are they listed on the CLP chart of qualifying lenses?

Not to mention that the closest option for FF, the 24-70 f/2.8L II, doesn't offer IS. Kind of surprising for a $2k lens

I would not agree that crops are going away. There will always be a group that wants the extra reach of the crop sensor or the budget photographer. An entry level full frame will always cost more than an entry crop.

Not to mention that somebody needs to tell all those people that bought APS-H bodies (e.g. 1D3) that "FF will always be better than crop".

Amfoto1 makes all the important points. The 7D doesn't autofocus in movie mode as the T4i can with an STM lens. I love the control layout of the 7D compared with my T1i, and I'm very impressed with the exposure system. 8 fps is great for sports and the body is rugged as hell. A refurbished one can be had for a little over $1K and I think the images will be considered excellent for a few more years. I'm not terribly tempted by a FF yet.

DesignerFin wrote in post #15733843
Amfoto1 makes all the important points. The 7D doesn't autofocus in movie mode as the T4i can with an STM lens. I love the control layout of the 7D compared with my T1i, and I'm very impressed with the exposure system. 8 fps is great for sports and the body is rugged as hell. A refurbished one can be had for a little over $1K and I think the images will be considered excellent for a few more years. I'm not terribly tempted by a FF yet.

Heck, I had a BNIB one that I was selling for $1100 shipped, and couldn't get any takers.

One thing is for certain, Canon will continue to turn the technology crank. When the 7D came out, there was nothing else short of a 1-series that matched it's AF and FPS. Now you've got a 5D3, but that's still double the price that a 7D body was when it was introduced. The 6D has blurred the line a bit on the FF side. I haven't seen all the specs on the 70D yet, but I'm guessing it's going to be more on a 60D extension than a replacement for the 7D, especially since the 7D II is scheduled for the Fall.

Canon used to (4-5 years ago), have 4 distinct line of cameras. You had the Rebel series, which was (and still is), the consumer-level DSLR. You had the XXD series, which was a pro-sumer APS-C line, you had the 5D series, which was a pro-sumer FF line, and you had the 1-series, which were full-blown pro bodies.

Today, there are more like 5 (or 5.5) lines. You still have the Rebel line, but the xxD line went more to the 'sumer' side of pro-sumer (w/ the 60D), you have the 7 line which took the APS-C sensor more towards the 'pro' side. Then there is the 6D, which offers FF, but compromises a bit. And then you have the 5D3, which steps up the FF game. And you still have the 1-series, for the full-blown pro bodies.

The 6D has broadened the appeal of FF, but hardly can be considered a competitor for the 5D3, and is only a marginal improvement over the 5D2. It will be interesting to see where the 7D II lands. If some of the rumors are true, and it comes w/ an integral grip (ala the 1-series), who knows what other 'pro' features it will come with? I think that if it does come w/ an integral grip, it will have enough other stuff that it will be a legitimate pro APS-C option.

The cycle time for the Rebel series, is still 12-18 months, and has been for the last few years. The cycle time for the xxD series is starting to grow (2 years between 50D and 60D, and at least 2.5 years between the 60D and 70D). And the 7D cycle time will be ~4 years, which is on par w/ the 5D cycle time. It was 6 years between the 1Ds3 and the 1DX. I think the longer cycle times are a good indicator that the products in question are legitimate tools of the trade. The only real anomaly was the 1D3 to 1D4 (2 years), but I think that was in response to the AF issues that the 1D3 suffered from

The ability to react to changing situations is what set the 7d apart from its lesser siblings including the new 6d. I don't care how good a perceived subjectively opinionated unquantifiable IQ is if the image is OOF or you missed the shot because you are fumbling through the menus.

The 7d is very well designed ergonomically. You get to reassign button functions which is great. AF is very good. Spot AF is a boon for you to be creatively get the shots you want. Put it this way the 1d4 doesn't even have spot AF on all its AF points. That's how flexible the 7d AF is. Bolt on a high quality lens and watch it go to work. Because of its larger robust body, it will balance well with a bigger lens too. The total package of the 7d is superior to the T4i.

So if your photography style will benefit from it, get it. Else you look elsewhere.

I wouldn't call the 6D a lesser sibling of a 7D But that's just me...

gabebalazs wrote in post #15734336
I wouldn't call the 6D a lesser sibling of a 7D But that's just me...

Neither would I, but I also wouldn't call it a significant (if any) improvement over a 5D2

To me, the 6d seems like a prosumer camera with a FF sensor.

Mk1Racer wrote in post #15735003
Neither would I, but I also wouldn't call it a significant (if any) improvement over a 5D2

While there are certain aspects of the 6D that are not really improvements over the 5D2 (perhaps even step backs?), most users and testers who own/tested the two beg to differ.

I think it is fairly unanimous that the 6D is an improvement over the 5D2. Better AF, better high ISO performance (at and above ISO12800 is close to a stop better), faster (if by only a little) fps, better buffer, better AF microadjustment, one-click 100% zoom in image play back etc. Having GPS and Wifi might be necessary for some, I wouldn't call those vital.

I think the 5D2 might have better ergonomics, I sort of miss the joystick on the 6D (I had a 60D in the past so the 6D wasn't unfamiliar), but at the same time I also love that most buttons are grouped right of the LCD, making most operations a one handed one.

The low light AF capability is great, and compliments the great high ISO performance well. I tested my 7D, 40D and 6D in a dark living room, and while the 7D and 40D completely failed to lock on target, the 6D did fairly easily and consistently (using same settings, same target, same lens on all 3). I was actually quite surprised that it wasn't just marketing.

But overall, people who already have a 5D2 probably don't need to run out and shop for a 6D, unless they need the extra features the 6D presents.