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Thread started 18 Mar 2013 (Monday) 00:35
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5D3 and high speed SD card

 
JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 00:35 |  #1

As I am getting into high-def video with my 5D3 I am quickly realizing that my slow memory cards, which are fine for the single photos I normally take, cant handle writing high def video. So I was wondering if buying a high write-speed SD card would be worth it with the 5D3's slow write ability to SD cards?

I was looking at either picking up these: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …2GB_SDHC_Memory​_Card.html (external link)

Or one of these: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …75_Extreme_Pro_​32_GB.html (external link)

Would the first link provide the capability to use HD video, or should I buy from the second link? If niether would work, ill just fork over the cash for a better CF card.

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minh2pac
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Mar 18, 2013 00:51 |  #2

If I'm not mistaking, 5d3 sd speed max out at class 10.


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JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 01:08 |  #3

The 5D3 manual says "Although the camera does not comply with the UHS (Ultra-High Speed) speed class standard, UHS SDHC/SDXC cards can be used." (bottom of page 32)

Ill take this as the manual saying it can use those SD cards, even though the camera cant fully utilize the faster write speeds.


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chrismarriott66
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Mar 18, 2013 05:29 |  #4

As you've correctly identified, the 5d3 doesn't support UHS, so you won't be able to take full advantage of the 95 cards... You'll need to use CF if that's important.

Take a look at this test though which shows different CF/SD cards being tested in a 5d3 - http://www.robgalbrait​h.com …i_page.asp?cid=​6007-12452 (external link)


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JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 05:39 |  #5

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #15727216 (external link)
As you've correctly identified, the 5d3 doesn't support UHS, so you won't be able to take full advantage of the 95 cards... You'll need to use CF if that's important.

Take a look at this test though which shows different CF/SD cards being tested in a 5d3 - http://www.robgalbrait​h.com …i_page.asp?cid=​6007-12452 (external link)

Oh wow I didnt realize the SD card slot on the 5D3 was bogged down so much. Is that a hardware restriction or is that something that can be fixed in a firmware update? Even so it is that bogged down, would I be able to record HD video on the SD cards? Im thinking maybe 3-5 minutes shots mostly, with an occasional 5-7 minute video. The videos would be at max resolution (I have it so why not use it? :) ).

The more and more I read up on it, the more it feels like the SD slot was added in last minute by Canon. Like its purpose was to be one more thing to help separate it from the 6D.


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Neilyb
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Mar 18, 2013 05:41 |  #6

JAcosta wrote in post #15727228 (external link)
Oh wow I didnt realize the SD card slot on the 5D3 was bogged down so much. Is that a hardware restriction or is that something that can be fixed in a firmware update? Even so it is that bogged down, would I be able to record HD video on the SD cards? Im thinking maybe 3-5 minutes shots mostly, with an occasional 5-7 minute video. The videos would be at max resolution (I have it so why not use it? :) ).

The more and more I read up on it, the more it feels like the SD slot was added in last minute by Canon. Like its purpose was to be one more thing to help separate it from the 6D.

It is Canon using up all their old SD slots, don't expect a firmware fix.


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chrismarriott66
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Mar 18, 2013 05:45 |  #7

The SD slot is great to have as backup... I regularly shoot RAW to CF and Medium-RAW to SD as a backup... but having said that, I don't shoot video :) I really don't know if you'd get away with it because I don't do video as I say, but if you're only shooting short bursts of video as opposed to lengthy clips, why not use CF cards and you'll never have to worry? :)


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JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 05:57 |  #8

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #15727235 (external link)
The SD slot is great to have as backup... I regularly shoot RAW to CF and Medium-RAW to SD as a backup... but having said that, I don't shoot video :) I really don't know if you'd get away with it because I don't do video as I say, but if you're only shooting short bursts of video as opposed to lengthy clips, why not use CF cards and you'll never have to worry? :)

SD cards are inexpensive compared to CF cards. I dont know if you know this but the 5D3 isnt exactly cheap and I got to recoup funds where I can! :)

So I did some half-brained calculations. From the 5D3 spec sheet on Canon's site (http://www.usa.canon.c​om …lectedName=Spec​ifications (external link)), it says that max video resolution brings in 685mb/min. Divide that by 60 seconds, and it comes out to be about 11.4mb/s. According to the link you provided, the cards Im looking at are going about 18.5mb/sec when writing RAW images. So it looks like the buffer could handle it? If Im wrong, someone please correct me.


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Mar 18, 2013 09:06 |  #9

"As I am getting into high-def video with my 5D3 I am quickly realizing that my slow memory cards, which are fine for the single photos I normally take, cant handle writing high def video."

What are the symptoms that make you realize the limitation?

There are some limitations to working in video on a DSLR that might be part of your issue. I have class 6 and class 10 cards and don;t have any issues, except those noted below, in my 60D.

There are also some other limitations on how much you can record, even with the best of memory cards. More than 12 minutes can be recorded but there are some limitations. When the file size reaches 4 GB on most Canon DSLR's, recording will automatically stop. As pointed out, that is a file size limitation. That means that at 1920x1080 dpi and 1280x720 dpi the maximum recording time of a single movie clip is about 12 minutes. At 640x480 dpi it is about 24 minutes. Check the 5DMKIII manual for the specifics for that camera.

These numbers may vary slightly for the 5DIII, but capacity of the card differs in recorded time; at 1920x1080 dpi or 1280x720 dpi you can stuff about 44 minutes total of video onto a 16 gig card. At 640x480 dpi or crop 640x480 dpi this goes up to 1 hour 32 minutes. However, there is a maximum length to an single video clip...from my 60D manual, "the maximum recording time of one movie clip is 29 min. 59 sec. Depending on the subject and the increase in the camera's internal temperature, the movie shooting might stop sooner than 29 min. 59 sec." Notice the mention of internal temperature. The manual for most Canon DSLR's mentions that video recording can shut down if the sensor overheats. From my understanding that typically only happens after 15-20 minutes but could be sooner if you are repeatedly recording videos, even in segments. The 29 min 59 second limit is for legal reasons. If the camera is capable of exceeding that time limit, then it is classed as a video device and the import duties would change. As far as the temperature limit, this is not just the Canon line, Pentax for instance states "Like competing DSLRs, the Pentax K-5 also monitors sensor temperature during recording, and will halt capture if the temperature rises beyond a certain threshold." A reputable source also states, concerning the 29 minute 59 second limitation "This limitation is due to the different (European) import duty rates for still and video cameras." There is no reference made to differing duty rates of product entering the United States however. So there may really be three limitations you can hit, one, the file size limit of 4 GB, two, the 29 min 59 seconds limitation imposed legally, and three, a sensor temperature issue that might also be reached in some rare circumstance.

By the way, the shutdown due to temperature can be a real drawback so consider renting a true video device if you are capturing something critical. At a recent horse show I was recording almost continuously and my 60D stopped based on sensor temperature. I had to wait several minutes before I could restart, missing several horses in the competition




  
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JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 09:25 |  #10

John from PA wrote in post #15727672 (external link)
What are the symptoms that make you realize the limitation?

There are some limitations to working in video on a DSLR that might be part of your issue. I have class 6 and class 10 cards and don;t have any issues, except those noted below, in my 60D.

There are also some other limitations on how much you can record, even with the best of memory cards. More than 12 minutes can be recorded but there are some limitations. When the file size reaches 4 GB on most Canon DSLR's, recording will automatically stop. As pointed out, that is a file size limitation. That means that at 1920x1080 dpi and 1280x720 dpi the maximum recording time of a single movie clip is about 12 minutes. At 640x480 dpi it is about 24 minutes. Check the 5DMKIII manual for the specifics for that camera.

These numbers may vary slightly for the 5DIII, but capacity of the card differs in recorded time; at 1920x1080 dpi or 1280x720 dpi you can stuff about 44 minutes total of video onto a 16 gig card. At 640x480 dpi or crop 640x480 dpi this goes up to 1 hour 32 minutes. However, there is a maximum length to an single video clip...from my 60D manual, "the maximum recording time of one movie clip is 29 min. 59 sec. Depending on the subject and the increase in the camera's internal temperature, the movie shooting might stop sooner than 29 min. 59 sec." Notice the mention of internal temperature. The manual for most Canon DSLR's mentions that video recording can shut down if the sensor overheats. From my understanding that typically only happens after 15-20 minutes but could be sooner if you are repeatedly recording videos, even in segments. The 29 min 59 second limit is for legal reasons. If the camera is capable of exceeding that time limit, then it is classed as a video device and the import duties would change. As far as the temperature limit, this is not just the Canon line, Pentax for instance states "Like competing DSLRs, the Pentax K-5 also monitors sensor temperature during recording, and will halt capture if the temperature rises beyond a certain threshold." A reputable source also states, concerning the 29 minute 59 second limitation "This limitation is due to the different (European) import duty rates for still and video cameras." There is no reference made to differing duty rates of product entering the United States however. So there may really be three limitations you can hit, one, the file size limit of 4 GB, two, the 29 min 59 seconds limitation imposed legally, and three, a sensor temperature issue that might also be reached in some rare circumstance.

By the way, the shutdown due to temperature can be a real drawback so consider renting a true video device if you are capturing something critical. At a recent horse show I was recording almost continuously and my 60D stopped based on sensor temperature. I had to wait several minutes before I could restart, missing several horses in the competition

Thats a lot of really good information, thank you. However it is the memory cards. The camera, when recording to a generic walmart SD card, will stop recording video after 6-8 seconds. It will buffer, write the video to the card, and will allow me to start recording again. When I record to my 600x speed 8gb CF card, it will record video just fine for as long as I want.

This is essentially what drove me to start looking at faster and higher capacity memory cards. Since CF cards are expensive in comparison to SD cards, I turned my attention to the SD market. I had read around the internet that the 5D3 shouldnt use SD cards for recording video, but I started the thread to get a more specific answer. I was hoping that what I had read on a couple forums/yahoo answers was uninformed and I could be given some real information here.

Just as an update to my original post, I ended up ordering these: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …2GB_SDHC_Memory​_Card.html (external link)
Once I get them and see how they record video myself, Ill come back and update the thread. If they cant record video, Ill at least be set on memory for stills.


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Mar 18, 2013 09:58 |  #11

That "walmart SD card" has really got to be garbage. I also have to believe, but can't speak from experience, that the 5DIII, using a "proper" SD card would not be hampered in its video performance.




  
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Mar 18, 2013 10:02 |  #12

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #15727216 (external link)
Take a look at this test though which shows different CF/SD cards being tested in a 5d3 - http://www.robgalbrait​h.com …i_page.asp?cid=​6007-12452 (external link)

Nice test, but there's a huge missing piece to that test. What write option was being used? If writing to both the CF and SD card at the same time, the SD card can cause slower times, but if writing to only the CF card or using auto switch (regardless if there is a SD card in the slot), there is no delay.

Sorry for the off topic post, but I just wanted to point out that the write option plays a part in write speeds.


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JAcosta
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Mar 18, 2013 10:12 |  #13

John from PA wrote in post #15727845 (external link)
I also have to believe, but can't speak from experience, that the 5DIII, using a "proper" SD card would be hampered in its video performance.

Well we will both find out when the cards arrive from B&H. Im in S. Korea at the moment so it might be a little while. I hope you understand what I mean when I say I hope to prove you wrong!:)


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chrismarriott66
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Mar 18, 2013 10:20 |  #14

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #15727853 (external link)
Nice test, but there's a huge missing piece to that test. What write option was being used? If writing to both the CF and SD card at the same time, the SD card can cause slower times, but if writing to only the CF card or using auto switch (regardless if there is a SD card in the slot), there is no delay.

Sorry for the off topic post, but I just wanted to point out that the write option plays a part in write speeds.

Yeah I have no idea how they did it :) I do find myself that writing RAW to the CF and medium RAW to the SD card creates a delay... If I really want fast writing speeds for whatever reason, the SD card comes out - makes a big difference in my experience so far.


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Mar 21, 2013 10:26 |  #15

I have to say that all things being "equal", CF and SD cards are not equal - or they wouldn't be designing bodies with CF slots anymore. I think I can say without any doubt that CF is almost always faster and more secure than with SD, likely most pros will comply. I read a review on some authoritative source some time ago that confirmed similarily spec'd cards always had the CF running faster in real life testing. However the reasons I'm not totally sure. I remember reading once that CF is configured like a hard drive with it's own ata controller for faster read/write speeds whereas the SD relies on the devices ability to be the controller and there is always a bottleneck there somehow. This makes sense to me, it's like using a pc's motherboard built-in video capability or buying a seperate video card - think about it. There is only so much work the chipsets can do, the more work you ask of them, somethings got to give. So in closing, IMO, if you want the best performance and stable operation use the CF and accept the higher costs. I have both no-name and brand name CF's and taken thousands of photos with my 5D3 with not one corrupt file yet. Of course, I'm no expert.......




  
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5D3 and high speed SD card
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