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Thread started 20 Mar 2013 (Wednesday) 09:50
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Any perfectionists out there?

 
John
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Mar 20, 2013 09:50 |  #1

I used to have some elementary level of OCD when I was younger which has lessened significantly as I grew older. I remember one night spending more than 30 minutes to straighten up shoes until they were "perfect" in terms of position and alignment. Then as the symptoms grew worse, I realized how much time I was wasting trying to be "perfect".

I came to this realization last night after spending about 3 hours editing two photos.

I remember editing the first one, being happy with it, then editing the second one and being happy with that. Then when I looked at the first one, I started seeing all these flaws that I hadn't seen before. This became a cycle and it reminded me of my OCD days.

I know for a fact that I'm not the only one that has this issue so wanted to bring it up for discussion with the POTN community to see if I there are any stories/tips/suggestio​ns that people like me can use.

Who wants to go first? :)


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Curtis ­ N
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Mar 20, 2013 10:01 |  #2

The cure for that is to shoot 300 shots at an event and promise to deliver them tomorrow.

Perfection in art is an elusive goal, so if you want to be perfect then you would be better off doing math than photography.

I strive for perfection in certain endeavors. If I sink a post for my mailbox, it's going to be exactly, precisely plumb. In the image making process, that approach would lead me straight to the funny farm.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 20, 2013 10:34 |  #3

I am most definitely a perfectionist in my photographic pursuits. However, my perfectionism takes a different route than yours; I do not sweat over photo editing - rather, my perfectionism is directed toward creating the shot perfectly in the first place.

I have "visions" all the time, and am constantly "seeing" the perfect image in my mind's eye. Then I go out and try to create the image, and am unable to do so. Every now and again I may get something close to my vision, but the images I capture never measure up to what I had hoped for.

My obsession with creating perfect images drives me to spend an insane amount of time in the outdoors, constantly striving to put my camera in the place it needs to be at in order to capture nature's perfection. I know that the perfect image is out there - my problem is that I simply can not get my camera precisely where it needs to be in order to capture this perfection.

I photograph wildlife, so to a large extent I am at the mercy of the critters and what they do. Last week I saw a large flock of Pintail Ducks standing on the thin ice in a swampy wetland about an hour from my home. The setting was ripe for creating a "perfect" image. I envisioned a large, mature Pintail male standing on the ice, with an equally attractive hen (female) standing there next to him. Both birds would be in the same plane of focus. They would be on the ice right at the water's edge, so that the foreground would be the deep blue of the water forming a dark "visual anchor" at the bottom of the frame. The ice they would be standing on would be rife with character, including chunks of icy rip-rap sticking up at sundry angles, giving a hint to the extreme winds that had wreaked havoc with the ice over the past several days. The "field" of the background would be more ice, with two bands of blue water transecting the white field horizontally. The contrast between the blue and the white in the background would be enough to be interesting, but not so much so that it would create a visual distraction where the edges would intersect with key parts of the main subjects, such as the neck/head transition. The background would also include more pairs of Pintail Ducks, out of focus, tastefully blurred, but yet just distinct enough that one could see their poses and the fact that they were also standing on the ice . . . a repetition of form, of sorts, supporting the in-focus subjects. The light for this image would be classic front-lighting, provided by the morning sun as it cuts thru a thin veil of softening haze. This distant haze would cause the shadows cast by my main subjects to be visible, yet soft. The shadows, cast upon the ice behind them (and slightly to one side), would be necessary to give a bit of added depth and dimension, yet not hard enough to be visually divisive.

That there is the turn my perfectionism takes. So, what did I do to try to create this image I saw in my mind's eye? I spent a full day carrying building materials to this site, and built a blind to shoot from. This was only done after finding out who owned the land and meeting with the landowner, securing permission to shoot there. I then spent the next three mornings in that blind at the water's edge, shivering in 15 degree cold as I waited for hours, hoping the Pintails would come land on the ice in front of my blind. They didn't . . . at least they never came and stood at the exact spot I wanted them to, and they didn't divide into male/female pairs the way I had hoped they would. Then all the Pintails in the area simply left; they have abandoned my region as they continue their northward migration. The blind is still there at the edge of the wetland. I still need to go disassemble it and carry it all back to my car - a task I absolutely dread. Being a perfectionist is exhausting, but I like to think that if I wasn't one, my wildlife images wouldn't be quite as good.

After three days, I never got the image I was hoping for. I doubt I would get such a perfect image, even if I waited there every morning for 10 years. To many factors have to be exactly a certain way, and I have no control over any of those factors. All I can ever do is to put myself in the right position to make the image I see in my mind's eye - and all the rest is up to the critters and the sky.

I am never, ever satisfied with my captures, for any image I have ever created could be better in some way. Yet I will continue to strive for that perfect image - for the rest of my life.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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John
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Mar 20, 2013 10:50 |  #4

Hey Tom,

Thanks for sharing! All I can say is WOW; a whole another level of perfectionism that broadens my horizon quite a bit.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15735786 (external link)
I am never, ever satisfied with my captures, for any image I have ever created could be better in some way. Yet I will continue to strive for that perfect image - for the rest of my life.

I realize it's naive to think that we'll be able to be "perfect" but it still nags the heck out of me. Your experience definitely gives me a new perspective though.

I think the first shot in this albumn is awesome, looks posed!
http://www.tomreichner​.com …L#!i=2109909674​&k=MxWJVJT (external link)


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John
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Mar 20, 2013 10:56 |  #5

Curtis N wrote in post #15735656 (external link)
Perfection in art is an elusive goal, so if you want to be perfect then you would be better off doing math than photography.

Yea, I guess it doesn't help that I was better at math in school than I was with art.

Curtis N wrote in post #15735656 (external link)
... that approach would lead me straight to the funny farm.

This is what I'm trying to avoid! :D


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OhLook
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Mar 20, 2013 11:05 |  #6

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15735786 (external link)
Last week I saw a large flock of Pintail Ducks standing on the thin ice in a swampy wetland about an hour from my home. The setting was ripe for creating a "perfect" image. I envisioned a large, mature Pintail male standing on the ice, with an equally attractive hen (female) standing there next to him. Both birds would be in the same plane of focus. They would be on the ice right at the water's edge, so that the foreground would be the deep blue of the water forming a dark "visual anchor" at the bottom of the frame. The ice they would be standing on would be rife with character, including chunks of icy rip-rap sticking up at sundry angles, giving a hint to the extreme winds that had wreaked havoc with the ice over the past several days. The "field" of the background would be more ice, with two bands of blue water transecting the white field horizontally. The contrast between the blue and the white in the background would be enough to be interesting, but not so much so that it would create a visual distraction where the edges would intersect with key parts of the main subjects, such as the neck/head transition. The background would also include more pairs of Pintail Ducks, out of focus, tastefully blurred, but yet just distinct enough that one could see their poses and the fact that they were also standing on the ice . . . a repetition of form, of sorts, supporting the in-focus subjects. The light for this image would be classic front-lighting, provided by the morning sun as it cuts thru a thin veil of softening haze. This distant haze would cause the shadows cast by my main subjects to be visible, yet soft. The shadows, cast upon the ice behind them (and slightly to one side), would be necessary to give a bit of added depth and dimension, yet not hard enough to be visually divisive.

So why aren't you a painter? If you want to design a nature scene and transfer it to a surface, that's the way to do it. Waiting for your imagined scene to turn up in reality doesn't work, as you well know. The creatures and the weather don't cooperate.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 20, 2013 11:13 |  #7

OhLook wrote in post #15735907 (external link)
So why aren't you a painter? If you want to design a nature scene and transfer it to a surface, that's the way to do it.

Because I don't enjoy painting. I don't think any painting of a wild animal has ever shown the subject to be as beautiful as it is in reality. Paintings fall short, as do my photographic efforts.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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gjl711
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Mar 20, 2013 11:29 |  #8

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15735786 (external link)
....I do not sweat over photo editing - rather, my perfectionism is directed toward creating the shot perfectly in the first place.

I have "visions" all the time, and am constantly "seeing" the perfect image in my mind's eye. Then I go out and try to create the image, and am unable to do so. Every now and again I may get something close to my vision, but the images I capture never measure up to what I had hoped for. ....

I have that as well, all the time. The image in my head is so clear but try as I may, it's nearly impossible to capture.

So, I have solved my issue with post processing. The image is there in real life but the camera is just too poor a tool to get it all into one tiny little sensor at the same time. In post though, anything is possible and one does not have to rely on a single capture to get the image.

For instance, the image below is a composite of three images. All taken minutes of one another but the image as posted is impossible to get in a single frame. The first image is to exposed for the sunset. If I properly expose for the sunset alone, the moon is totally blown out and the comet is totally invisible. The second is exposed for the comet which totally blew out the sunset and the moon was just a huge white blob. The last exposure is exposed for the moon which rendered the other two horribly underexposed. I just got plain lucky with the jet :):). Then in post I put them together and got the image I had in my minds eye. I suppose I could have stacked all kinds of ND filters to get things just right but way too much trouble and even then the quality would suffer. Post is the way to satisfy the inner eye.

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8556348863_fab760b493_b.jpg

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ejenner
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Mar 20, 2013 12:13 as a reply to  @ gjl711's post |  #9

My tips? Make sure out only spend 3+ hours on a photo that is worth spending time on and don't spend that time in one go.

Do 1 hour or so, stop and come back to it. I've had images that I keep coming back to and tweaking and probably have spent 5 hours total on. Some I will never print, so it's just perfectionism creeping in.

I often get something just how I want it only to come back to it a few days later and think 'yuck, what was I thinking', then turn down the contrast (for instance). Come back another 3 days later and think 'that just looks flat' and turn up the contrast etc... etc...


A lot depends on what photos I've been looking at in the interim.

Admittedly, this more often happens with shots that I don't have a clear vision of what it is I'm trying to show or what the image 'message/subject' is.


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watt100
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Mar 20, 2013 14:11 |  #10

Curtis N wrote in post #15735656 (external link)
The cure for that is to shoot 300 shots at an event and promise to deliver them tomorrow.

or have to deliver them the same day like newspaper sports photographers (back when they had newspapers)




  
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sjones
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Mar 20, 2013 16:32 as a reply to  @ watt100's post |  #11

As we can see here, there are different approaches to "perfection," and I suspect that people who are actively involved on this forum are going to be more concerned about self-improvement than the casual user.

I also assume that many of us strive to get a perfect shot upon pressing the shutter. Post processing may follow, although setting the camera's parameters beforehand is effectively the same thing. Meaning that the use of post processing does not, by any means, always imply that what was initially taken in camera was flawed. It simply means that the camera's inherent limits failed to satisfy the photographer's desired outcome.

Particularly in black and white photography, placement and use of tonality, highlights, shadows, contrast, and such are markedly subject to personal interpretation, whereby, as the photographer---not artist---Ansel Adams so clearly demonstrated, thus setting an indisputable precedent, the most creative, and thus compulsive, aspect of photography can absolutely occur in post, despite relative perfection being achieved at the time of the shutter release.

As Curtis N noted, perfection is, in one way, perpetually elusive; there is no absolute equation guaranteeing impeccable success, especially when judging one's own work. I might find other's work perfect, at least in the sense that I wouldn't demand any change to the photograph, but never with my own photos.

Yet, in the impossible quest for "perfection," I place most emphasis on expanding my vision, aiming to see things to which I was blind or unobservant in the past. When I see a great photo, I'll frequently ask myself if I would have known to take the shot if I was in the same location, same time, and so on. It might seem so obvious, "of course I would have," but if this were true, then how come I'm not coming home with photos of similar quality.

My approach involves stepping out the door with little clue as to what I will photo, hoping that I might not only find myself at the right place and time, but, more importantly, to be keen enough to act upon the opportunity presented. Sometimes the opportunity might prove static, allowing for some contemplation, or it might be fleeting, offering only a second or two. But the constant key is the ability to see it in a visually compelling manner and to quickly envision its potential, whether the subject matter is inherently alluring, such as an attractive woman, or mundane and unassuming.

So expanding vision largely entails developing and fostering a more creative perception of lighting, shape, and composition, finding it where I once would have ignored it, both at the time of shutter release and in post.


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