Event has rights to family pictures, huh?

A group of family members are planning to compete in a local mud run. I sent the company a message through facebook asking if I could photograph family throughout the event. The following is what I have been told:

You are welcome to come out but please understand that we have rights to all pictures taken at the event. Thanks. - Steve. Race Director

Before I respond back I would like to know what this means or what I am getting into. I have no intention of selling any pictures as it will be of family (unless someone happens to be in the shot as wel)l. I shoot RAW and do not carry any device to transfer photos when on the go.

Am I missing something? I just don't want to catch any grief when I get out there with my "professional" lens.

Thank you.

I think you should check his website, which you could share with the rest of us and if there is a printed ticket, what does it say on there. It is not all that uncommon for events to exert control over images taken at their event. Is it legal, I don't know as some of these sorts of things change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction

If the event is going to command control of all images taken on the premises then I do believe that they have to provide a written rule pertaining to same.

Dear JJD.Photography,

I hereby declare that I own the rights to every image you ever shot.

There. I wrote it. And it has as much legal significance as the message you received (none).

Without your signature on a document specifically transferring copyright to them, they don't have a leg to stand on.

Now if you take issue with their claim, and if the event is in some confined area where they are charging admission, then they may not let you bring your camera in. So you would be better off to ignore their ridiculous claim, attend and shoot at will.

Thats likely aimed at commercial use. Events often do a rights grab as part of the admission. The real world impact is likely none unless you try to use the image commercially, or perhaps if you take a stunning shot(and they somehow become aware of it) they might try to use it for their own purposes.

I'd tell em unless they plan to confisicate (read steal) my camera from me before I leave the event the pictures are mine and I can use them any way I choose. I think most of other posters are right. They have jack all to stand on legally and they know it.

If it's a privately organized event with clearly marked boundaries (fence) around the event and there's consideration required for entry (pay to get in), then they have every right to control the "pictures, descriptions and accounts" of their event.

Every sports league does it. XGames does it. NASCAR, F1 and IndyCar do it. It's called intellectual property rights over their brand.

Now, can they enforce it? Yes, if they find you've sold images of their event in any manner not of their liking. Would they hammer you for giving images to a competitor who's a friend or family member? Highly unlikely.

But if the top conditions are met, and you're asked to stop shooting, comply or be ejected and possibly face trespassing charges.

Don't get me wrong, but just imagine, if on such an event something bad happens, like somebody dies, etc...
There are some people who are shooting this kind of things, and then next day its in the newspaper, with claiming rights for any image (still or motion), the organisers can decide if those people can publish these or not.
(And lets be honest such images should never be published)

icacphotography wrote in post #15744045
I'd tell em unless they plan to confisicate (read steal) my camera from me before I leave the event the pictures are mine and I can use them any way I choose. I think most of other posters are right. They have jack all to stand on legally and they know it.

They can simply disallow you to make any pictures.
In the same way I can say, I don't want you to make any pictures of me.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #15744066
But if the top conditions are met, and you're asked to stop shooting, comply or be ejected and possibly face trespassing charges.

There's the key. If they're controlling admission then they can create rules for behavior, such as whether or not you can bring a camera, what areas you can shoot from, etc. But if you fail to comply with their rules, their only recourse is to kick you out. They don't own any image rights just because they say they do.

They're just covering their rear I think. I went to one my friends ran in and nobody blinked an eye at my gear. I think I asked before. They do own the copyright on the race name and icon, probably the race setup etc so if you shoot that one fantastic image with their logo in the back, I'd probably ask them before starting to sell it. Otherwise I doubt they'll search the web, everybody there films and takes photos on their phones etc anyway.

Lots of fun to shoot these events! Make sure to get good before/after shots of your friends! Nobody is going to take your gear or throw you out, they might not let you set up tripods or let you climb into a tree etc.

Yes, they can "forbid" you to shoot, but it's really more about the commercial use of your photography. They "own" the event and so can prohibit you from using photos "commercially" (unless you have a "release"). For personal use, hey, take an iPhone into an NBA game and snap away, no problem unless you try to use it in a "commercial" way without "license"!

Curtis N wrote in post #15744141
There's the key. If they're controlling admission then they can create rules for behavior, such as whether or not you can bring a camera, what areas you can shoot from, etc. But if you fail to comply with their rules, their only recourse is to kick you out. They don't own any image rights just because they say they do.

Flying photog never specifically said they have copyright. But they seem to have a right to limit use.

I think it's similar to photographing people. If your face is in the picture you don't own the copyright, but you can stop them from using it for commercial purposes.

Curtis N wrote in post #15744141
....But if you fail to comply with their rules, their only recourse is to kick you out. They don't own any image rights just because they say they do.

You are correct that they don't own the images but Jay is also correct. There are two issues here; copyright ownership and contractual agreement.

Ownership of images is controlled by copyright law. However usage of images (or anything else) may be limited or curtailed by contractual agreement. If entry to the event is subject to acceptance of their terms and conditions, then a contract is formed when you accept those terms and enter the event. If one of those terms grants them the right to use any of your images or limits your usage that is legally binding.

There is some legal discussion as to if a contract exists if you didn't see the terms and conditions before buying the ticket, but as the OP has already asked and been informed of the terms of entry that argument wouldn't hold in this case.

Key words from the race director are these:

It's vague and implies much more than contractual limitations on commercial use. It's the sort of language used by those who have no clue about either copyright law or commercial usage licensing, hence my indignant attitude.

The OP hasn't clarified whether this event is in a public place like a park, or some confined area where they are restricting admission. The answer to that question is critical.

The off road events that I shoot at, the promoter has language similar to this in their forms:

"***** reserves the rights to utilize any pictures taken by those accredited by ******* to promote ******** brand and future events."

Not word for word, but that's the jest of it. He also has language in there in regards to selling commercially which basically states "if you want to sell commercially, get our approval" which isn't an issue. Now the last race I went to, there was someone without a media pass who shot from a spectator area that advertised commercially after the event, but I don't know I don't think that was squashed. When I'm done shooting, I pick some images that I shot, process them real quick and turn them over to the promoter. Sometimes they use them, sometimes they don't. For this particular guy, I don't have a problem doing it because he's one of the best folks I know and he allows no name, no talent hacks like myself to get out onto the track and try to make a buck or two.

Another promoter that I talked to recently regarding getting onto the track basically has the same program and I don't have a problem with that.

Some people might have a problem with it, some don't; but in the end it comes down to their event, their rules.