Event has rights to family pictures, huh?

Bottom line is if they'll let you shoot, shoot. They won't bother you unless somehow you start making enough money to bother them. If that's unlikely, fire away.

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747176
The off road events that I shoot at, the promoter has language similar to this in their forms:

"***** reserves the rights to utilize any pictures taken by those accredited by ******* to promote ******** brand and future events."

Not word for word, but that's the jest of it. He also has language in there in regards to selling commercially which basically states "if you want to sell commercially, get our approval" which isn't an issue. Now the last race I went to, there was someone without a media pass who shot from a spectator area that advertised commercially after the event, but I don't know I don't think that was squashed. When I'm done shooting, I pick some images that I shot, process them real quick and turn them over to the promoter. Sometimes they use them, sometimes they don't. For this particular guy, I don't have a problem doing it because he's one of the best folks I know and he allows no name, no talent hacks like myself to get out onto the track and try to make a buck or two.

Another promoter that I talked to recently regarding getting onto the track basically has the same program and I don't have a problem with that.

Some people might have a problem with it, some don't; but in the end it comes down to their event, their rules.

From the words I made bold, I surmise that you're talking about a contractual situation. In the process of securing a media pass, you grant them certain useage rights in exchange for access to preferred areas to shoot from.

The OP in this case didn't mention a media pass or any special access. If that's what he's after then he need to clarify.

Curtis N wrote in post #15746547
Key words from the race director are these:It's vague and implies much more than contractual limitations on commercial use. It's the sort of language used by those who have no clue about either copyright law or commercial usage licensing, hence my indignant attitude.

The OP hasn't clarified whether this event is in a public place like a park, or some confined area where they are restricting admission. The answer to that question is critical.

Yup, the venue is a public place, no one has the right to your images. Same as you shoot a city parade and few shots were used for editorial purposes in some newspaper. If the photos would be used for commercial purposes, you would need releases on the people shown as well as the company logos and the city property.

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747176
The off road events that I shoot at, the promoter has language similar to this in their forms:

"***** reserves the rights to utilize any pictures taken by those accredited by ******* to promote ******** brand and future events."

Not word for word, but that's the jest of it. He also has language in there in regards to selling commercially which basically states "if you want to sell commercially, get our approval" which isn't an issue. Now the last race I went to, there was someone without a media pass who shot from a spectator area that advertised commercially after the event, but I don't know I don't think that was squashed. When I'm done shooting, I pick some images that I shot, process them real quick and turn them over to the promoter. Sometimes they use them, sometimes they don't. For this particular guy, I don't have a problem doing it because he's one of the best folks I know and he allows no name, no talent hacks like myself to get out onto the track and try to make a buck or two.

Another promoter that I talked to recently regarding getting onto the track basically has the same program and I don't have a problem with that.

Some people might have a problem with it, some don't; but in the end it comes down to their event, their rules.

Sigh, you need to define commercially in the language of the IP law. Just because you are selling photos of the players, to the players themselves, that's not commercial. A commercial usage involves some sorts of endorsement of a business service from the subject. Such as the bike company Specialize using a photo of a rider riding their bikes in a bike race and they are using it on their website.

JJD.Photography wrote in post #15743856
You are welcome to come out but please understand that we have rights to all pictures taken at the event. Thanks. - Steve. Race Director

You own the copyright of any photos. But the rights to USE the photos for any commercial purpose are solely at the control of the event organizer.

This is not any different than the rights retained by sports organizations, to have full control over any commercial usage of photos taken at their events. The photographer may own the photo, but has no rights to use their photos and grant licensing of that photo to others.

Personal pictures taken with camera are able to be taken without consent of the organization. However, 'guests are not permitted to transmit pictures of any games' - this would be a prohibition against you selling your photos, unless you had first made arrangements to get permission from the organizer (probably for a fee), prior to granting permission to a third party to use your photo commercially.


Generally 'commercial usage' refers to using a photo to promote the product/business of some unrelated enterprise. You can certainly sell an enlargement of the photo to someone as a decoration, but you could not sell that photo to that same person/enterprise to promote their business or advertise a product of theirs. Similarly you could not put an enlargment in the front window or on the walls of your own business.

TooManyShots wrote in post #15747698
Sigh, you need to define commercially in the language of the IP law. Just because you are selling photos of the players, to the players themselves, that's not commercial. A commercial usage involves some sorts of endorsement of a business service from the subject. Such as the bike company Specialize using a photo of a rider riding their bikes in a bike race and they are using it on their website.

So the player buys an image file to use for promoting the team or to drum up sponsorship dollars isn't commercial? So even though it's only the players that have bought the images at this point, me using those same images to promote my business and having them available for purchase to the entire world for purchase isn't commercial?

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747763
... me using those same images to promote my business and having them available for purchase to the entire world for purchase isn't commercial?

That is certainly commercial usage of your photo!

One might think of the 'event organizer' like 'model'. You have to get rights from the model via a 'model release' before you can sell that photo for any commercial use or use it yourself to promote your own business. And just as you would not charge the model to use her own photos to promote her modelling career, one could never charge the event for the rights to use photos of their event to promote future events!

In the case of the 'event' they have declared sole control of such control rights, and that they have the rights to use photos of their events. They have not given you the equivalent of 'model release' or 'property release', (but in this case it is figuratively 'event release') so you cannot sell the photo for commercial purposes.

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747763
So the player buys an image file to use for promoting the team or to drum up sponsorship dollars isn't commercial? So even though it's only the players that have bought the images at this point, me using those same images to promote my business and having them available for purchase to the entire world for purchase isn't commercial?

Well, I'd say that all depends on the contract(s) and terms involved, as well as the need for you to have "releases" from any individuals that you use for your own business promotion.

But I'm not any kind of copyright "expert"!

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747763
So the player buys an image file to use for promoting the team or to drum up sponsorship dollars isn't commercial? So even though it's only the players that have bought the images at this point, me using those same images to promote my business and having them available for purchase to the entire world for purchase isn't commercial?

It could be. However, I don't believe the line is clear between when a photo taken in the race and later purchased by the riders to promote their teams. Frankly, I don't see why the race organizer would get upset about it. It just help the event as well as the local teams. I cover a team in the local bike races for 2 seasons. Not a lot of money involved mind you but it helps the local race series to have more exposures and getting the name of the teams out too. And of course, I was the only one who could produce good shots too. Well, shooting a bike race early 6am morning isn't exactly easy with limited sun light. Of course, at the end of the last season, I literally gave the race organizer over 20 photos so that they can use them to seek out race sponsors.

Seriously, if a local race organizer is getting anal about the photo usages, especially if the event hasn't been getting enough exposures in the past, they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Ok now, let me put out another question. Well, what if riders are using GoPros to record the race and later uploaded to their team website. Can the rider do that?

Wilt wrote in post #15747784
That is certainly commercial usage of your photo!

One might think of the 'event organizer' like 'model'. You have to get rights from the model via a 'model release' before you can sell that photo for any commercial use or use it yourself to promote your own business. And just as you would not charge the model to use her own photos to promote her modelling career, one could never charge the event for the rights to use photos of their event to promote future events!

In the case of the 'event' they have declared sole control of such control rights, and that they have the rights to use photos of their events. They have not given you the equivalent of 'model release' or 'property release', (but in this case it is figuratively 'event release') so you cannot sell the photo for commercial purposes.

I alluded to it in my initial post, the promoter has given the blessing for to all of us who receive media passes to sell to anyone we wish, in any format we want.

TooManyShots wrote in post #15747826
Ok now, let me put out another question. Well, what if riders are using GoPros to record the race and later uploaded to their team website. Can the rider do that?

Yes. And to add to this, another guy that is affiliated with the race team does video of the races and uses some of the GoPro footage in his ventures.

And in relation to your previous post, exposure is why the promoter has what I would call loose rules in regards to photogs. I call them loose just based on what I've read here and other places about venue/event rules. In most places, he's not hurting for cameras on the track, but for the two races I went to last year, I was the only photog on the track. The race a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't, but the next one there's a good chance I will be.

Black Mesa Images wrote in post #15747853
Yes. And to add to this, another guy that is affiliated with the race team does video of the races and uses some of the GoPro footage in his ventures.

And in relation to your previous post, exposure is why the promoter has what I would call loose rules in regards to photogs. I call them loose just based on what I've read here and other places about venue/event rules. In most places, he's not hurting for cameras on the track, but for the two races I went to last year, I was the only photog on the track. The race a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't, but the next one there's a good chance I will be.

Come to think of it, that's not limited to in race video footages from the same rider. The team may even have someone (from the team) taking photos of the race and later use those photos on their own team website.

I would respond back "Can you please clarify this statement for me, as all photographs taken by me are instantantly copyrighted by me as the moment of creation. I do understand however that I may not use the images in any commercial manner without prior written consent."

mikeinctown wrote in post #15752710
I would respond back "Can you please clarify this statement for me, as all photographs taken by me are instantantly copyrighted by me as the moment of creation. I do understand however that I may not use the images in any commercial manner without prior written consent."

Too much effort. Just ignore it.