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Thread started 30 Mar 2013 (Saturday) 01:32
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POLL: "Which camera would attract MORE attention?"
Fuji X-E1
12
52.2%
Sony NEX-6
11
47.8%

23 voters, 23 votes given (1 choice only choices can be voted per member)). VOTING IS FOR MEMBERS ONLY.
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What would attract more attention from thieves/public? Fuji X-E1 or Sony NEX-6?

 
LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 01:32 |  #1

Hello all....quick question...which camera do you think would attract MORE attention from thieves/the general public: The Fuji X-E1 or the Sony NEX-6?

I'm looking into buying a mirrorless system for travelling and I want it to be as stealthy as possible. I had it narrowed down to the NEX-6, but then I found out that Fuji is going to bring out a 10-24, which sounds like an awesome lens...but, I think it may be a rather flashy/attention-grabbing camera, while the NEX-6 kinda just looks like a P&S...opinions?

EDIT: In case you're wondering, I'll be travelling through SE Asia for about 3 months...most travel insurances won't cover as much for gear as I currently have, and not really being a resident of any place and not having a permanent address, I can't just insure my stuff as a piggy-back policy on a home insurance or anything...so the solution is to travel with slightly cheaper and much less conspicuous gear without sacrificing IQ too much. :)


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Mar 30, 2013 03:11 |  #2

It doesn't really matter to a thief, if it has a value they will steal it no matter which camera it is. They might even steal your shoes if they are fine enough.

/ Magnus


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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 03:14 |  #3

Magnus3D wrote in post #15771585 (external link)
It doesn't really matter to a thief, if it has a value they will steal it no matter which camera it is. They might even steal your shoes if they are fine enough.

/ Magnus

That's not true...a flashy/expensive camera will make the risk more worth it...they're more likely to steal something (and risk getting caught) if they can make $2,000 off of it, than if they can make $100 off of it. You just said that in your last sentence...if it's "fine enough" they'll go after it...if not, they won't bother.

Anyways...theory aside...which is more attention grabbing?


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philwillmedia
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Mar 30, 2013 08:21 |  #4

Probably the same one that would attract more attention where you live - oh but nothing EVER gets stolen in South Korea or Canada does it.
Crap questions and posts like this are an insult to the general law abiding citizens (who make up the vast majority) in the country concerned.


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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 08:29 |  #5

philwillmedia wrote in post #15771951 (external link)
Probably the same one that would attract more attention where you live - oh but nothing EVER gets stolen in South Korea or Canada does it.
Crap questions and posts like this are an insult to the general law abiding citizens (who make up the vast majority) in the country concerned.

Lol....what an absolutely useless and ignorant...wait...sorr​y..."crap" post.

It's a well-documented fact that some of the countries I'm going to have a significantly higher rate of petty theft than Canada or especially South Korea.

In South Korea, I can walk around with $5,000 worth of equipment in a dark alley of any city at 3 a.m. and not have to worry. Whereas some of the countries I'll be visiting (you will notice that I did not single out any of them) have a well-established history of theft of small valuables from visitors.

Next time you decide to play the holier-than-thou card, educate yourself first.


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tupper
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Mar 30, 2013 08:37 |  #6

I voted X-E1 to keep this thread from turning into a fight.


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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 09:06 |  #7

tupper wrote in post #15771991 (external link)
I voted X-E1 to keep this thread from turning into a fight.

Thanks, I appreciate it...it's sad that so many threads go down that path around here.

By the way, in case anyone's wondering...here's a non-partisan report from the same source on some of these countries (they pretty much back up everything else I've read on the internet and heard from friends who have been to these countries)...it's easy to see that the situation in some countries is VASTLY different from South Korea, for example:

South Korea (FWIW, in the 2+ years I've been here, I've NEVER heard of anyone having his or her purse, camera, wallet, etc stolen...theft of parts off of bicycles and motorcycles seems to be the most common problem...it's occurred to me and my friends quite frequently):

https://www.osac.gov …ortDetails.aspx​?cid=12050 (external link)

Whereas in Vietnam and Cambodia, for example, the significantly more serious armed robberies and the drive-by motorcycle snatchings are a well-known and relatively wide-spread issue:

https://www.osac.gov …ortDetails.aspx​?cid=12028 (external link)

https://www.osac.gov …ortDetails.aspx​?cid=11292 (external link)

Anyways...back on topic, let's discuss CAMERAS :)


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Marcos ­ Dantas
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Mar 30, 2013 09:13 |  #8

LowriderS10 wrote in post #15771591 (external link)
That's not true...a flashy/expensive camera will make the risk more worth it...they're more likely to steal something (and risk getting caught) if they can make $2,000 off of it, than if they can make $100 off of it. You just said that in your last sentence...if it's "fine enough" they'll go after it...if not, they won't bother.

Anyways...theory aside...which is more attention grabbing?

Both.
Shoes usually have no resale value. Even the simplest point and shot is "fine enough".

The question is not the value (you can be using a expensive Leica system and no one will be wise) but ... the "attention grabbing", I mean, the size and colour of the camera and how you behave yourself.




  
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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 09:27 |  #9

Marcos Dantas wrote in post #15772063 (external link)
Both.
Shoes usually have no resale value. Even the simplest point and shot is "fine enough".

The question is not the value (you can be using a expensive Leica system and no one will be wise) but ... the "attention grabbing", I mean, the size and colour of the camera and how you behave yourself.

Right...which means the Fuji (being bigger) will attract more attention...

I know anything can be stolen, and yes, Leicas are somewhat stealthy...however, I still maintain that people will risk the possible ramifications of getting caught steeling much more for something they perceive to be of significant value vs. something that's not.

With that said, my behaviour is about as good as it gets. I travel smart and, despite my extensive travels, I've yet to be involuntarily relieved of so much as a penny. I only wear cheap $5 watches and the only valuables I carry with me is a camera. No laptop, no iPod, no iPad, nothing...this way, I can always keep track of basically everything that's worth money. I always hold the body of the camera when walking and I'm careful to put my backpack on my front in crowded places, keep nothing other than a notebook and a pen in my rear pockets, sleep with my backpack under my arm (between me and the wall), try to walk on the inside of the sidewalk to reduce the chances of a drive-by snatching, etc, etc...hell, I even do random crap like patch up non-existent holes in my backpack with duct tape to make it look like a ratty cheap backpack, so people won't think there's anything worth stealing in there.

Still...I'm trying to make an important decision here...and figuring out which camera will be perceived as less of a target is part of that decision. (Hence why I won't be travelling with the monstrous 5D2 + 16-35L combo). With the Sony, for example, I can put the strap around my shoulder and my hand over the body/lens and effectively hide it almost entirely...


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icacphotography
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Mar 30, 2013 09:54 |  #10

I would say the sony just simply because it has a much more modern look. If you look at the fuji X series they are all retro styled like an old rangefinder so I'd bet at first glance your common thief might mistake them for a P&S film camera. Though if the thief were knowledgeable about cameras they would steal either in a heartbeat imo.

TL;DR if it's a run of the mill thief the fuji would be safe otherwise both have equal chance of being stolen.


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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 10:00 |  #11

icacphotography wrote in post #15772143 (external link)
I would say the sony just simply because it has a much more modern look. If you look at the fuji X series they are all retro styled like an old rangefinder so I'd bet at first glance your common thief might mistake them for a P&S film camera. Though if the thief were knowledgeable about cameras they would steal either in a heartbeat imo.

TL;DR if it's a run of the mill thief the fuji would be safe otherwise both have equal chance of being stolen.

Hmmm, thanks...I was actually thinking about that...wondering if its design would fool the less savvy thieves into thinking it's a worthless old film camera...while the body of the Sony is slightly smaller than the Fuji's, the Fuji lens mount is smaller than the Sony's...I'm wondering if the 10-24 Fuji is set to release will be smaller than Sony's 10-18...thus making the overall package less conspicuous...on the X-E1, the logo is also really easy to tape up, making it look like an oldschool nondescript camera...


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Mar 30, 2013 12:54 |  #12

I think you guys are looking at it like photographers, not somebody who wants a quick buck. People snatch cameras arent experts and dont care about a model. Any camera around your neck has value enough to be snatched. Photographers make big deals over models and features and what is new and whats old. Most people dont care, neither do thieves.




  
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Marcos ­ Dantas
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Mar 30, 2013 18:12 |  #13

kjonnnn wrote in post #15772618 (external link)
I think you guys are looking at it like photographers, not somebody who wants a quick buck. People snatch cameras arent experts and dont care about a model. Any camera around your neck has value enough to be snatched. Photographers make big deals over models and features and what is new and whats old. Most people dont care, neither do thieves.

That was exactly my point.

I suggest a the smaller camera, not because it will look cheaper but because it will be less visible.




  
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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2013 19:31 |  #14

kjonnnn wrote in post #15772618 (external link)
I think you guys are looking at it like photographers, not somebody who wants a quick buck. People snatch cameras arent experts and dont care about a model. Any camera around your neck has value enough to be snatched. Photographers make big deals over models and features and what is new and whats old. Most people dont care, neither do thieves.

To an extent...when I was shooting with my old G9 or my current S100, nobody cared. When I was shooting with my 1D3 or my 5D2 + 16-35L II, people did notice. As you'll see, the whole point of this thread is what will attract more attention...in my example, a 1D3 would attract more attention than an S100. It would make one stand out of a crowd more, and that's a bad thing when it comes to theft. If I'm in a place with 50 tourists, I don't want to be THE ONE they single out for theft. Hence my wish to blend in as much as possible with gear that attracts the least possible amount of attention.

Marcos Dantas wrote in post #15773411 (external link)
That was exactly my point.

I suggest a the smaller camera, not because it will look cheaper but because it will be less visible.

This is exactly what I have been thinking. Thus, in this case, the NEX would win out by virtue of being smaller. However...I wonder if the X-E1 is stealthier by virtue of its design...that's the whole point of this thread...does the unassuming design of the X-E1 make it less visible than the smaller size of the NEX :)


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Marcos ­ Dantas
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Mar 30, 2013 21:58 |  #15

LowriderS10 wrote in post #15772091 (external link)
(...)

With that said, my behaviour is about as good as it gets. I travel smart and, despite my extensive travels, I've yet to be involuntarily relieved of so much as a penny. I only wear cheap $5 watches and the only valuables I carry with me is a camera. No laptop, no iPod, no iPad, nothing...this way, I can always keep track of basically everything that's worth money. I always hold the body of the camera when walking and I'm careful to put my backpack on my front in crowded places, keep nothing other than a notebook and a pen in my rear pockets, sleep with my backpack under my arm (between me and the wall), try to walk on the inside of the sidewalk to reduce the chances of a drive-by snatching, etc, etc...hell, I even do random crap like patch up non-existent holes in my backpack with duct tape to make it look like a ratty cheap backpack, so people won't think there's anything worth stealing in there.
(...)

I think I wasn't clear.

Lowrider, I know you didn't wanted to sound offensive and, believe me, I'm not attempting to be offensive also, or to pick a fight, but I think phillwillmedia has a point: that kind of question can be see as rude and (this is the worst) uneducated.

Please, let me elaborate.

I think that you are using the wrong mindset, as kjonnnn has pointed, but I would add this to what kjonnnn said: you not only are thinking like a photographer, but like a first-worlder photographer also, and doing this you are exposing yourself to a greater danger.

I don't have any kind of authority to say anything about SE Asia, but as a third-worlder myself I can take some educated guesses.

I am a Brazilian, living in Rio de Janeiro, a city with (at least until some years ago) a very high crime rate. Believe it or not, I never was robbed. I suffered a attempted mugging (I simply walked away) and one time I lost my wallet (there is some chance that I was pickpocketed, I really am not sure), but I never was forced to give any valuable. In the other hand, my brother, my wife and a lot of acquaintances didn't had the same luck.

My point is: Higher crime rates doesn't mean you will be, certainly, robbed. It means that the odds that you will be robbed are higher.

It is a probability game, a lottery. Statiscally, you should be safer spending some days at a city with a higher crime rate than spending years in a city with a lower crime rate.

You notice that I typed "should"? The problem is that being a foreigner you stack the odds against you. It is not because a first worlder tourist have more valuable possesions. It is because a visitor from a very different society doesn't know how to read the signs of danger around him.

A decade ago a friend of a acquaintance, both foreigners, was robbed at daylight. Whem I was told the details my first reaction was to yell "But what that crazy lady was doing alone at that street?!"

In Rio (and around the world, I believe) busy streets are safer than empty streets. That specific street is very empty during the day, doesn't offer a easy way out and attracts some unsavoury types. A perfect place to be ambushed.

Some friends lived in the neighbourhood. I knew the area, but not very well. Yet I knew that particular street was dangerous. How I knew that?

It is near Santa Tereza neighbourhood, this means it is at the foot of a hill. Hills streets are long, with fewer intersections (fewer escape routes and onlookers). It is a residential area, usually a safe kind of area in Rio, but the residents of that street are ... nightworkers. During the daylight they're sleeping, you don't see kids playing, you don't see people bringing groceries to home, you don't see anything that is usual in other streets of the city. Midday is like midnight at that street. The absence of noises coming from the windows, like pots brewing, music, people talking, should be a worrying sign. Brazilians aren't a quiet people. It was also near a somewhat decadent, bohemian area, with a population of down-of-luck, petty criminals.

At the "similar threads" section there is a post, in the"Public attention that you get with your 70-200 2.8 IS ii" thread where a British guy in a very poor area (shacks, dirty track) of Maranguape, NE Brazil, said he felt unconfortable and didn't took ou his 70-200 from the backpack fearing he could be robbed.

The ironic truth is that the risk are higher in the streets of the fancy neighbourhood of Ipanema than in a miserable village in Northeast Brazil.

I am a southeasterner, but my dad was a northeasterner. They can be hot-blooded, even violent, but they are the most zealous of theirs self-image of all brazilians, specially the poors. They have a somewhat medieval, chivalric mindset, "if I don't have nothing, I still have my honour". I'm not kidding, there are troubadors in NE Brazil!

It is not the poverty who tempts someone to do dishonest things. It is the perceived poverty. The NE Brazil's poors somewhat accept theirs lives. It is in the big cities of SE Brazil, where the destitutes live side-by-side with the filthy richs, where poor kids give in to temptation and enter in a life of crime.

My point here? If you travel to Brazil, learn the basic geography of the city. Second point, don't be afraid of the poorer cities. Be afraid of the richest cities.




  
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What would attract more attention from thieves/public? Fuji X-E1 or Sony NEX-6?
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