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Thread started 31 Mar 2013 (Sunday) 22:49
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7D focus problem

 
rndman
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Mar 31, 2013 22:49 |  #1

Ok. Don't beat me saying it is user error. But since day 1 I was not 100% satisfied with the keeper rate think it was my fault always.
But when I got 5D3 and saw the consistency and sharpness, I strated to doubt that there is something with 7D. Mine is one of the first batches.
It so happens that I had seen the same behavior and result as mentioned by the OP in the thread below. I discounted it by saying it could be the air density, weather pattern etc. But the OP in the thread confirms that it is intermittent. This could open up the real issue that may have plagued some of the 7Ds (or may be not).

Have you seen this happening with your 7D and if yes, have you experience lower keeper rate due to not properly focused images..

Could this be the sensor cleaning mechanism causing this issue?

http://www.dpreview.co​m/forums/thread/345643​4 (external link)


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krb
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Mar 31, 2013 22:57 |  #2

The fact that he is having issues when using manual focus completely eliminates the focus system as a possible issue.

His description sound like it could be a problem with image stabilization running when it shouldn't.


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rndman
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Mar 31, 2013 23:19 |  #3

krb wrote in post #15777406 (external link)
The fact that he is having issues when using manual focus completely eliminates the focus system as a possible issue.

His description sound like it could be a problem with image stabilization running when it shouldn't.

I have seen this with my 7D and hence I opened this thread. This has nothing to do with IS. I was using 400mm f/5.6 when I experienced this just yesterday.


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Apr 01, 2013 00:21 |  #4

So you were shooting with Live View and you see the focus darting back and forth (without activating autofocus)?

Sorry, the dpreview thread's wall of text was a bit disorienting. I'm not quite sure what your actual complaint is...

If you're game, post up some of the mis-focused photos you get on your 7D with EXIF intact.


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Apr 01, 2013 06:57 |  #5

So, there's a problem with the 7D's AF that minfests itself when using MF? Is it just me, or does anybody else think the world is getting more and more stupid?


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rndman
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Apr 01, 2013 07:08 |  #6

jwcdds wrote in post #15777575 (external link)
So you were shooting with Live View and you see the focus darting back and forth (without activating autofocus)?

Sorry, the dpreview thread's wall of text was a bit disorienting. I'm not quite sure what your actual complaint is...

If you're game, post up some of the mis-focused photos you get on your 7D with EXIF intact.

I can post the misfocused photos, but the phenomenon described here need to be viewed on LV. Let me see if I can take a video insted. Hopefully we can see it.


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Apr 01, 2013 09:04 |  #7

Can you confirm that you have tested with the lenses Image Stabilisation turned off and witnessed this effect.

Have all the tests been done on a tripod or have you seen this effect hand held?

This has all the hallmarks of classic IS syndrome.


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amfoto1
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Apr 01, 2013 09:11 |  #8

Live View uses a completely different focusing system from the normal 19 point array of the camera. LV uses the image sensor itself and a contrast detection method that's much slower than the normal focusing method. The normal or standard focusing method using the 19 points seen through the viewfinder is phase detection method.

Since you were using a 400/5.6, IS isn't the problem, since the lens doesn't have stabilization. However with a long lens like that (especially one without IS and on a crop sensor camera), the problem is usually camera shake. The 7D and other 18MP cameras are more sensitive to camera shake, possibly due to the very densely packed pixel sites on the sensor. Canon put out a white paper on this a while back and recommended trying to use sllightly higher shutter speeds to offset it. Even using a tripod, camera shake can occur (due to a breeze or the user pressing the shutter release or even the slap of the mirror and movement of the shutter).

I don't use LV a lot with my 7Ds (both of which are from the first batch, were pre-ordered and deliverred the first few weeks the camera was available). I had a bad keeper rate the first few months using the cameras, but it was user error. Once I stopped trying to use all the fancy AF modes in ways they weren't intended, simplified things, I get a keeper rate that's very high now. I probably cull out 5% or less images for focus issues. My keeper rate with my 7Ds -for focus alone - is better than I've ever gotten with any other Canon model (mostly used 5DII, 50D, 30D, 10D, EOS-3, Elan 7E, A2E... but some other models along the way too, intermittently: 1V, 1DII or III, 1Ds, a couple of the Rebel series).

If shooting RAW in particular, 7D images are "soft", likely due to a strong anti-alias filter. Some additional sharpening takes care of that. I use 60% or more stronger sharpening with 7D than I did with 50D, for example. Sometimes the image softness is mistaken for focus problems.

Are the lens or the camera new to you? Does the lens have a filter on it? Have you Micro Adjusted the lens (tho that shouldn't matter in LV)?


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rndman
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Apr 01, 2013 12:08 |  #9

amfoto1 wrote in post #15778365 (external link)
Live View uses a completely different focusing system from the normal 19 point array of the camera. LV uses the image sensor itself and a contrast detection method that's much slower than the normal focusing method. The normal or standard focusing method using the 19 points seen through the viewfinder is phase detection method.

Since you were using a 400/5.6, IS isn't the problem, since the lens doesn't have stabilization. However with a long lens like that (especially one without IS and on a crop sensor camera), the problem is usually camera shake. The 7D and other 18MP cameras are more sensitive to camera shake, possibly due to the very densely packed pixel sites on the sensor. Canon put out a white paper on this a while back and recommended trying to use sllightly higher shutter speeds to offset it. Even using a tripod, camera shake can occur (due to a breeze or the user pressing the shutter release or even the slap of the mirror and movement of the shutter).

Yes. After a careful test I can confirm that it is external vibration (floor, wind etc.)

I don't use LV a lot with my 7Ds (both of which are from the first batch, were pre-ordered and deliverred the first few weeks the camera was available). I had a bad keeper rate the first few months using the cameras, but it was user error. Once I stopped trying to use all the fancy AF modes in ways they weren't intended, simplified things, I get a keeper rate that's very high now. I probably cull out 5% or less images for focus issues. My keeper rate with my 7Ds -for focus alone - is better than I've ever gotten with any other Canon model (mostly used 5DII, 50D, 30D, 10D, EOS-3, Elan 7E, A2E... but some other models along the way too, intermittently: 1V, 1DII o
r III, 1Ds, a couple of the Rebel series).

Any TIPS on your setting that you don't mind sharing?

If shooting RAW in particular, 7D images are "soft", likely due to a strong anti-alias filter. Some additional sharpening takes care of that. I use 60% or more stronger sharpening with 7D than I did with 50D, for example. Sometimes the image softness is mistaken for focus problems.

Yeah. I have seen that. 7D needs a bit extra sharpness

Are the lens or the camera new to you? Does the lens have a filter on it? Have you Micro Adjusted the lens (tho that shouldn't matter in LV)?

[QUOTE]

I observed this while doing MFA


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notastockpikr
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Apr 01, 2013 13:57 |  #10

hollis_f wrote in post #15778060 (external link)
So, there's a problem with the 7D's AF that minfests itself when using MF? Is it just me, or does anybody else think the world is getting more and more stupid?

++1

I've been reading and re-reading these posts and I, for the life of me, don't understand the issue.

If the OP is not using LiveView to focus manually and only focus confirmation, then the lens must be MFA'd so that the focus confirmation beep/light is accuate/tack sharp.

Am I missing something? :confused:




  
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