Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 01 Apr 2013 (Monday) 18:08
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Gear vs Skill

 
whuband
Goldmember
Avatar
1,433 posts
Likes: 84
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:24 |  #106

I can't believe this thread is 7 pages. Go shoot something :-)


1D4, 6D, 7D2, Sony a6000 with Sony16-70, Rokinon 12mmf2, Canon lenses: 17-40L, 17-55 f2.8, 10-22, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 70-200mm IS 2.8, 300mm 2.8 IS, 580EXII (3), 430EX, Alien Bees.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
JuvarAbrera
Senior Member
Avatar
677 posts
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Cavite, Philippines
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:28 |  #107

Your post makes it 8 pages.


Juvar, 18 || Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
10,778 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 2547
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:32 as a reply to  @ post 15786287 |  #108

OMG... someone had to bring the Natural light ( I dont know how to use a flash) photographer into this argument.

Im a wedding photographer. I have to control light and blend with what ever given ambient i have.........Gear is ridicously important for what we do. Your not going to photograph a wedding in a dark venue with a fricken I-phone

The answer is BOTH. You cant take great photos with limited equipment unless you know what the hell you are doing and even then it may not be possible to get great results unless you have great eqiuipment----Imagine that

This is a pointless debate. Its kind of like aperature + Shutter speed + ISO gets you a properly exposed photo

Gear + Skill + Knowledge and how these two elements work together gets you a great photo by a photographer who knows what they are doing.

A lot of silly remarks in this thread.


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
moose10101
registered smartass
1,664 posts
Gallery: 9 photos
Likes: 237
Joined May 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:38 |  #109

umphotography wrote in post #15786337 (external link)
A lot of silly remarks in this thread.

What would you expect when a bunch of opinionated people get snookered by an April Fools joke?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Phoenixkh
a mere speck
6,829 posts
Gallery: 67 photos
Likes: 1435
Joined May 2011
Location: Gainesville, Florida
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:51 |  #110

I've been inspired...... I'm listening to Disraeli Gears


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
iamascientist
Senior Member
Avatar
680 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Mass
     
Apr 03, 2013 08:57 |  #111

Obviously it all comes down to what gears you own.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
10,778 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 2547
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
     
Apr 03, 2013 09:00 |  #112

moose10101 wrote in post #15786348 (external link)
What would you expect when a bunch of opinionated people get snookered by an April Fools joke?

Well, Unfortunately, Its not an April fools joke. This topic comes up frequently on POTN. I generally stay out of these arguments because there is not a correct answer.

This past month I attended a 3 day training convention in Minnesota for professional photographers. The people that lined up the speakers to train at this event had an individual come in and speak about what they do and how they do it. The person was a natural light photographer and had no clue about lighting other than they can shoot wide open with natural light and get fuzzy backgrounds.....Thats it. A 50L at F/2.0 in front of a window and they have 29000 people following them on facebook and they are coming to photography conventions for professional photographers teaching what they are doing.......Total joke in my opinion.

What we have now accepted is that mediocrity is an acceptable form of professional photography. There is a place for all natural light, as is a place for supplementing it with flash... but thats another argument all together.

But this gear v/s Skill debate is just stupid. I cant do what i do w/o great gear. As the camera technology continues to develop, ISO will be usable at 25K for professional cameras very soon.......Imagine that. 25K usable iso ( GEAR ) with an 85L ( Gear ) shot at F/1.2 ( Skill ) with available lighting ( Knowledge) and supplemented with a flash ( GEAR and Knowledge) to get a great photograph.


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
moose10101
registered smartass
1,664 posts
Gallery: 9 photos
Likes: 237
Joined May 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
     
Apr 03, 2013 09:04 |  #113

umphotography wrote in post #15786400 (external link)
Well, Unfortunately, Its not an April fools joke.

I still think that was the OP's intention. Either that or he was under the influence.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
iamascientist
Senior Member
Avatar
680 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Mass
     
Apr 03, 2013 09:10 |  #114

umphotography wrote in post #15786400 (external link)
Well, Unfortunately, Its not an April fools joke. This topic comes up frequently on POTN. I generally stay out of these arguments because there is not a correct answer.

This past month I attended a 3 day training convention in Minnesota for professional photographers. The people that lined up the speakers to train at this event had an individual come in and speak about what they do and how they do it. The person was a natural light photographer and had no clue about lighting other than they can shoot wide open with natural light and get fuzzy backgrounds.....Thats it. A 50L at F/2.0 in front of a window and they have 29000 people following them on facebook and they are coming to photography conventions for professional photographers teaching what they are doing.......Total joke in my opinion.

What we have now accepted is that mediocrity is an acceptable form of professional photography. There is a place for all natural light, as is a place for supplementing it with flash... but thats another argument all together.

But this gear v/s Skill debate is just stupid. I cant do what i do w/o great gear. As the camera technology continues to develop, ISO will be usable at 25K for professional cameras very soon.......Imagine that. 25K usable iso ( GEAR ) with an 85L ( Gear ) shot at F/1.2 ( Skill ) with available lighting ( Knowledge) and supplemented with a flash ( GEAR and Knowledge) to get a great photograph.

Maybe consider for a moment that artificial light is not required to create great images. Step out of the office photographer role for a second and try to see it from a different angle.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Apr 03, 2013 09:23 |  #115

whuband wrote in post #15786302 (external link)
I can't believe this thread is 7 pages. Go shoot something :-)

I can't...I was led to believe the gear doesn't matter so I tried to use my coffee cup as my camera

it's not working :cry:


Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,122 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5233
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 03, 2013 09:30 |  #116

smorter wrote in post #15786287 (external link)
A bit rich coming from guys who photographed what they want when they wanted to - both were PJ's, not commercial or wedding photographers

Not that applicable for wedding photographer who is asked by their client to photograph in a particular venue, with a particular background, expecting fashiony, flattering and brilliant looking results

I very rarely use flash, but understand that it's yet another tool that can be employed - I warn against over interpreting isolated quotes as a manual for photography

I only use it when there no other option. And I know how to use it really well. And I said that already but you can learn a lot form those that have come before. It took me a long time to really understand what they really meant. Most would be really surprised at what available light can give you if you only take the time to see it instead of blasting your way through it. And no one knows anymore what fill light means :lol::lol::lol:




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mattertea
Member
227 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Dec 2012
Location: Montclair, NJ
     
Apr 03, 2013 10:37 |  #117

smorter wrote in post #15786464 (external link)
I can't...I was led to believe the gear doesn't matter so I tried to use my coffee cup as my camera

it's not working :cry:

Thats not the point and you know it... let me ask this and maybe you'll get it -

With your skill and knowledge, If you lost all this (quoted from your gear list):

5D Mark III
5D Mark II
5D Mark I
1D Mark III (rubbish AF)
1D Mark IIN

And were left with just your 400D or 40D and a kit lens, would you be unable to capture stunning images?

Isn't that the point of having backup gear, in-case your good stuff breaks? you still have a clear vision and can execute it because you have experience in using the lower quality gear to achieve those results.

Would the results be better with better gear? - OF COURSE but that doesn't mean you are *screwed* with only your backups.



Flickr (external link)
Sculpting Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,122 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5233
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Apr 03, 2013 10:46 |  #118

smorter wrote in post #15786464 (external link)
I can't...I was led to believe the gear doesn't matter so I tried to use my coffee cup as my camera

it's not working :cry:

Like I said it matters to the point that you find equipment that allows you to capture that vision and you have to master that equipment whatever it maybe. For some and what they do, its a holga. For some its an 8X10 view camera and the zone system. Tools, not accessories are what cameras are.

I'll post this again because its more true today as when Weston said it.
"The fact is that relatively few photographers ever master their medium. Instead they allow the medium to master them and go on an endless squirrel cage chase from new lens to new paper to new developer to new gadget, never staying with one piece of equipment long enough to learn its full capacities, becoming lost in a maze of technical information that is of little or no use since they don't know what to do with it." - Edward Weston




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Apr 03, 2013 10:55 |  #119

airfrogusmc wrote in post #15786739 (external link)
"The fact is that relatively few photographers ever master their medium. Instead they allow the medium to master them and go on an endless squirrel cage chase from new lens to new paper to new developer to new gadget, never staying with one piece of equipment long enough to learn its full capacities, becoming lost in a maze of technical information that is of little or no use since they don't know what to do with it." - Edward Weston

I disagree with obsessing over getting that last 1% from their existing gear, and don't understand the concept of diminishing marginal returns and that time also costs money. Using new and different gear opens up a whole new world of possibilities, and allows capture of photos that could not be possible using existing gear. Even being able to utilise 50% of a new piece of gear effectively is better than trying to squeeze that last 1-2% out of existing gear


Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Apr 03, 2013 10:57 |  #120

mattertea wrote in post #15786702 (external link)
Thats not the point and you know it... let me ask this and maybe you'll get it -

With your skill and knowledge, If you lost all this (quoted from your gear list):

5D Mark III
5D Mark II
5D Mark I
1D Mark III (rubbish AF)
1D Mark IIN

And were left with just your 400D or 40D and a kit lens, would you be unable to capture stunning images?

Isn't that the point of having backup gear, in-case your good stuff breaks? you still have a clear vision and can execute it because you have experience in using the lower quality gear to achieve those results.

Would the results be better with better gear? - OF COURSE but that doesn't mean you are *screwed* with only your backups.

I know, but the problem is many people in this thread seem to think that people lose or gain skill overnight based on their gear choices, e.g. those who say "I'd rather a good photographer with bad gear, rather than a bad photographer with good gear" are completely unrealistic. You can change your gear overnight, but how does one go from being good to bad instantly overnight?

The correct comparison is a good photographer with good or bad gear, and a bad photographer with good or bad gear. And in each case, better gear = winner, given skill levels stay largely the same at any one point in time.

I have yet to meet a photographer who suddenly loses his/her skill when he/she picks up good gear

But given the number of people who have said that a bad photog with good gear > good photog with bad gear, it just astounds me how a photographer suddenly becomes bad if they pick up good gear, or good if they pick up bad gear

Can anyone answer this mystery?


Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

32,951 views & 0 likes for this thread
Gear vs Skill
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Car147
1135 guests, 322 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.