Lighting for families

Been working on lighting for 1 person, and doing a lot of children, but now I'm getting requests for families.

What lighting setup would I need? I read syl arena's book that said I'd need something like a 60" umbrella and 3-4 flashes. However I noticed another thread on here that I found via google that said a 60" octa and the 600 ex would be good enough .

I an considering an alienbee or something similar. I had posted awhile back b/c I was debating the ring flash, but I think I'll settle for just a normal alienbee. Is 1 alienbee enough for an outdoor family portrait with a large soft box?

Suggestions please?

I've shot large and small groups with everything from single and multiple speedlights to mono lights and large softboxes.

My go-to setup now is a single Cheetah 180 with a 43" umbrella for small families. For larger groups I use two Cheetah lights and two umbrellas. For indoor work (or some exterior location work) I still love my Photogenic 1500 w/s mono light + large softbox. However I just purchased a 50" softbox for my Cheetah light so I'm anxious to use it.

Here's a recent thread about using the Cheetah lights with some examples

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1287929

A lot depends on how big a group and how big an area you are trying to light. A single light will often give you falloff toward the edges of the frame, as much as a stop or more. Ideally you would like two lights for more than just a very small group. Shoot through umbrellas or PLM's with a diffusion panel are preferable to softboxes for this use. Softboxes are less desirable as they have quicker falloff and more defined edge light which is great for some purposes, but less so for groups. You especially dont want to use a single softbox for a group shot because of the falloff. You also get a lot more bang from your buck with a PLM or shoot through umbrella in terms of size for the money.

gonzogolf wrote in post #15783667
A lot depends on how big a group and how big an area you are trying to light. A single light will often give you falloff toward the edges of the frame, as much as a stop or more. Ideally you would like two lights for more than just a very small group. Shoot through umbrellas or PLM's with a diffusion panel are preferable to softboxes for this use. Softboxes are less desirable as they have quicker falloff and more defined edge light which is great for some purposes, but less so for groups. You especially dont want to use a single softbox for a group shot because of the falloff. You also get a lot more bang from your buck with a PLM or shoot through umbrella in terms of size for the money.

I agree with most of this but a large (4' or larger) softbox will work quite well for group shots. I used my 4' x 3' softbox for this pic.

jcolman wrote in post #15783706
I agree with most of this but a large (4' or larger) softbox will work quite well for group shots. I used my 4' x 3' softbox for this pic.

I agree if you buy a huge softbox. But most will try to use a smaller softbox and not get the same results.

ok so I can use umbrellas. I dont guess my 2 flashes with 2 umbrellas will work? 430 ex and 580 exii

How does the cheetah 180 compare to alien bees IYO?

I am going ot look further into this tonight when I get home.

jcolman how did you light your softbox? strobe?

You can start with speedlites, a lot depends on how/where/when you are going to take these group shots. For many groups you need to be at smaller apertures so while you can get the spread of light with speedlites, you may not get the power to get to f8 or f11. For a softbox the size he used you would need a strobe. Its hard to fill a box of that size with a speedlite.

abbypanda wrote in post #15783791
ok so I can use umbrellas. I dont guess my 2 flashes with 2 umbrellas will work? 430 ex and 580 exii

How does the cheetah 180 compare to alien bees IYO?

I am going ot look further into this tonight when I get home.

jcolman how did you light your softbox? strobe?

Your flashes will work just fine...under the right conditions. It's when you get into a situation where you need to combat the power of the sun that your flashes won't be powerful enough. You also need a way to trigger your flashes and that usually means using a radio trigger. The Cheetah lights (CL-180) is twice as powerful as your 580. However even so, there are times when I have had to use two of them to light large groups in bright sunlight. Alien bees are great lights, but will require a portable power supply and triggers. Paul Buff makes both. The CL-180 also comes with its own portable power supply and triggers.

Remember, the more w/s (watt/seconds) a light puts out, the more power you will have to light large areas. At the minimum I suggest a 160w/s light. But I have also been able to light large groups with cheap speed lights, again it depends on the location and ambient light that you are dealing with.

I used a 1500w/s light in a large (4x3') softbox to light the example I posted. I didn't need all that power, but it's nice to have when you do need it.

jcolman: That is a wonderful image. Very nicely created.

samsen wrote in post #15783942
jcolman: That is a wonderful image. Very nicely created.

Thank you!

Ok so I found a thread here on the CL 180 and it's quite long but I will read through taht tonight. In terms of power is the cl 180 comparable to the alienbee 400?
I think I got that right?

It seems appealing as if I read it right it offers highspeed sync and the alienbees/ einstein dont? I do sports so that might be something that helps my decision too.

abbypanda wrote in post #15784911
Ok so I found a thread here on the CL 180 and it's quite long but I will read through taht tonight. In terms of power is the cl 180 comparable to the alienbee 400?
I think I got that right?

It seems appealing as if I read it right it offers highspeed sync and the alienbees/ einstein dont? I do sports so that might be something that helps my decision too.

Both lights are around the same power output but the CL-180 does offer hypersync. However I don't know if that would necessarily be helpful to you in shooting sports. When in hypersync mode, you lose a lot of the flashes power. To me, the CL-180 is more convenient to use since it comes complete with a lithium batter and transmitter/receiver that allows you to adjust power from the transmitter.

jcolman wrote in post #15786284
Both lights are around the same power output but the CL-180 does offer hypersync. However I don't know if that would necessarily be helpful to you in shooting sports. When in hypersync mode, you lose a lot of the flashes power. To me, the CL-180 is more convenient to use since it comes complete with a lithium batter and transmitter/receiver that allows you to adjust power from the transmitter.

More important, if considering the light for sports, the H mode actually lengthens the flash duration which is opposite what one needs to stop action. H mode on the CL-180 is akin to High Speed Sync on Canon speedlites. Its completely different that HyperSync (TM) as implemented by Pocket Wizard with ControlTL.

The reason the light output is diminished when the CL-180 is in H mode is because the energy stored in the capacitor has to be used to rapidly cycle the flash tube to generate a longer flat output rather than a single burst. The same compromise occurs with Canon Speedlites when in HSS mode.