video camera decision help

hi there. while i am pretty saavy in regards to the camera lenses and bodies i want....
i am highly lacking in understanding my video needs.
i know that i want a dedicated video camera of HD quality
while i like to play with manul controls on the DSLR, i am not really that interested in this for video

it is primarily for school plays, family outings, and private regular family stuff. no movies. not interested.

anyway, i am looking for a relatively small unit that I can add to my camera bag, with great image quality, decent to good low light performnce and USER FRIENDLY

my choices in general are canon vixia series (i suppose), panasonic or sony. i even got great recommendations on sony hdr cx760v - but that is too expensive for my humble needs....

also which is the best type of memory recording ...sd card? hard disk? mixture?

many thanks for your advice and patience!!

HDD camcorders were nice back when memory wasn't as cheap or abundant as it is now, and they eat more power, but I must ask, what's your budjet?

Panasonic makes some really nice camcorders, you can get last year's still-great HC X900M for not too much, given the features available.

oops. sorry. i forgot the budget....
the budget for this comes out of my budget for lenses for my DSLR....
so while I can afford more expensive - i would rather in the $1000 or less range.
thanks.

BTW - yes, the panasonic 900 is one of them on my list to evaluate. as is the sony 560v and the vixia s21. but I am willing to hear of other models!

In the $1000 & less segment, the x900 and the new x920 are really the best there are - 3-chip with BSI, 5-axis optical IS, big zoom range, the Panasonic look, etc. You would have to spend 3x as much for a better camera, and it would still be a Panny.

Check out this video of X920 footage: http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=12exxl6ZXVU

Sony tends to be overpriced IMO, lots of fancy tech and features, but no meat.

Canon has nice lenses, but I'm not a fan of the video processing.

I went to purchase a video cam last summer with the idea of spending more than $1000.
I walked out of BH with a camera for $550.

The associate suggested I try this camera first (HF-M500) and see what I could or could not do with it. That was very good on his part. Really nice videos, lots of options and great price.
Since then I have learned a ton about video capabilities and what I might or might not need - I have shot about 600 clips from 5 seconds to 11 minutes in length.


So, my advice would be the same, and a tripod with fluid head is really important.
It depends on what your goal is - remember that may change as you get used to your video cam - it is very addicting.

I have a Panasonic HDC-TM700 that I bought a few years ago. The only I don't like is the touch screen. Not the specific touch screen, but touch screens in general when I'm using a video camera. I often have only one hand free and found it much easier to control things with my thumb rather than use my other hand. Anyway, I suppose that's the way of all video cameras these days.

I'd recommend built-in memory. My Panasonic has 32 GB and I can add more through an SDXC card, but never have. I haven't taken that much video before being able to transfer it to a hard disk.

Check out camcorderinfo.com for a ton of useful info. If you are ever outside I highly recommend attaching a Wind Cutter over you mic. It does a great job blocking wind noise and doesn't block what you want to hear.

This seems interesting:
http://www.blackmagicd​esign.com …kmagicpocketcin​emacamera/

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #15806884
In the $1000 & less segment, the x900 and the new x920 are really the best there are - 3-chip with BSI, 5-axis optical IS, big zoom range, the Panasonic look, etc. You would have to spend 3x as much for a better camera, and it would still be a Panny.

Check out this video of X920 footage: http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=12exxl6ZXVU

Sony tends to be overpriced IMO, lots of fancy tech and features, but no meat.

Canon has nice lenses, but I'm not a fan of the video processing.

thanks for this. i was also looking at the new JVC which also seems nice - but to tell you the truth - I don't know how to assess which is better - a 3 way sensor, the variety of IS in all directions etc. At least right now - there are no direct comparisons that I found.

on top of that - I am not sure how much i will be using the video...so I return to the idea that maybe less is better....

pbelarge wrote in post #15806920
I went to purchase a video cam last summer with the idea of spending more than $1000.
I walked out of BH with a camera for $550.

The associate suggested I try this camera first (HF-M500) and see what I could or could not do with it. That was very good on his part. Really nice videos, lots of options and great price.
Since then I have learned a ton about video capabilities and what I might or might not need - I have shot about 600 clips from 5 seconds to 11 minutes in length.

So, my advice would be the same, and a tripod with fluid head is really important.
It depends on what your goal is - remember that may change as you get used to your video cam - it is very addicting.

this is the kind of advice i am asking - is "less" enough for me...and if so... where is "less" too little? I will look at the camera you noted. Thanks.

goldboughtrue wrote in post #15810747
I have a Panasonic HDC-TM700 that I bought a few years ago. The only I don't like is the touch screen. Not the specific touch screen, but touch screens in general when I'm using a video camera. I often have only one hand free and found it much easier to control things with my thumb rather than use my other hand. Anyway, I suppose that's the way of all video cameras these days.

I'd recommend built-in memory. My Panasonic has 32 GB and I can add more through an SDXC card, but never have. I haven't taken that much video before being able to transfer it to a hard disk.

Check out camcorderinfo.com for a ton of useful info. If you are ever outside I highly recommend attaching a Wind Cutter over you mic. It does a great job blocking wind noise and doesn't block what you want to hear.

thanks for the links and the recommendation. Do you find that your battery time is hurt much by using the built in memory? honestly i am thinking the most amateur uses you can think of.... family vacations... events and shows the kids have... etc. just for the family vacation - i would love if the battery could last at least the day without being bothered to bring out another one with me (i will hauling around the dslr and the lenses too!)

Sirrith wrote in post #15810831
This seems interesting:
http://www.blackmagicd​esign.com …kmagicpocketcin​emacamera/

the form factor and the description sounds wonderful....albeit i wonder if they will have a general lens..or if they mean it to be a system to carry multiple lenses....
and the price isn't horrible either.

ceriltheblade wrote in post #15810990
the form factor and the description sounds wonderful....albeit i wonder if they will have a general lens..or if they mean it to be a system to carry multiple lenses....
and the price isn't horrible either.

As it takes M4/3 rd lenses I would hope that you would be able to use one as a "general walk around" lens. A lot would depend on what the "normal" focal length for the format was. If the sensor is about the same size as 16mm film then I guess that will be around 20mm or so. If normal is around that then you should be able to get a reasonable lens from the M4/3 ranges available.

Alan

ceriltheblade wrote in post #15810990
thanks for this. i was also looking at the new JVC which also seems nice - but to tell you the truth - I don't know how to assess which is better - a 3 way sensor, the variety of IS in all directions etc. At least right now - there are no direct comparisons that I found.

A 3-way sensor is a must on small cameras, because it greatly improves color fidelity and low light performance, since the sensors don't use bayer filters, but each capture the RGB channels separately. 3 smaller sensors will beat out a single bigger one, to a reasonable extent.

The IS is very nice, because it lets you hand hold the camera almost as stabile as if on a tripod, no amount of image quality or features can compensate for shaky footage. If you don't like the idea of carrying a tripod everywhere, this is your friend.

But, if you also start off with poor equipment, you might not get a good impression of having the need to shoot in the first place. You need a camera that's fun to use and will also give good results.

Go to a store that maybe has these cameras in stock and try them out yourself.

Battery use mainly depends on the type of memory, tape and HDDs used mechanical components, and so had a big power draw, modern solid state memory like flash has very low power consumption.

Knowing Black Magic, that camera isn't going to be out until next year, at best; they haven't even managed to ship all of their current BMC cameras to those who ordered one.

kolor pikker - you rock. thanks for all the great advice!
if i could pick your brain a bit further - at about the same price point
would you prefer the x920 of panasonic or the jvc px100? both seem pretty on top of the game.
and i don;t want to spend much more than this either. except for memory cards or an extra battery - are you aware if any of them need any extra equipment?

ceriltheblade wrote in post #15811251
kolor pikker - you rock. thanks for all the great advice!
if i could pick your brain a bit further - at about the same price point
would you prefer the x920 of panasonic or the jvc px100? both seem pretty on top of the game.
and i don;t want to spend much more than this either. except for memory cards or an extra battery - are you aware if any of them need any extra equipment?

Ok, I'm going to have to throw some bias out here, but I don't really like JVC. Their cameras, be they high-end shoulder cams or not, are generally better on paper than in practice. You get nice specs like the PX100 having up to 600fps (catch: at a greatly reduced resolution), but I bet there are going to be problems in use. Not the most reliable camera manufacturer.

Other than that, consumer camcorders typically already come with most of what you need to shoot, but you can of course get extra media/batteries depending on how much you intend to shoot, here are some figures:

32GB: ~3 hours on highest quality.
VW-VBN130 battery: 1 to 1.5 hours
VW-VBN260 battery: about 3 hours