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Thread started 11 Apr 2013 (Thursday) 18:33
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Hope my daughter didn't ruin this photographers day too badly.

 
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w0m
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Apr 12, 2013 14:48 |  #256

sophies-mom wrote in post #15820758 (external link)
=sophie's-mom;15820758]I'm basing part of my opinion on my feelings that if the OP never had intentions of purchasing such photos...that his daughter shouldn't have even had photos taken. That she was in line, sat, stated it's how her mom wanted it done...in my opinion, is a waste of time.
.

Aside from the fact that OPs daughter took a non-sale and turned it into a sale; which is the reason the photographer is there. He (the photographer) should be happy about that.


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burnet44
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Apr 12, 2013 14:49 |  #257

Very intresting comments by everyone here. I have been a teacher/coach/principa​l for 35 years. We all have seen the schools become a parent in many ways to the kids we are sent. Most every thing in many cases comes for the school these days. Food, discipline, school supplies, board for 8 hrs a day, parenting ect. There is a time and place for everything. This wasnt the time and place to "be funny". When you mess with peoples income to me thats basically stealing from them. This girl AND the others who made their on choice to join in are not funny. She gave them the idea but they decided to do their pose too. Each one is responsible for their own actions. Each one. I have also run into many parents who feel the same way that it was just in fun. Those kids usually cut themselves from the team because they didnt have enough personal discipline to follow directions. And I didnt need them anyway. All they would do is screw up for everyone esle at a critical time. Those were kids you couldnt count on. And they eventually decided on their own to quit. It also save the parents the time of coming to talk about their non existant playing time. Less BS I had to listen to. Fun isnt playng with peoples income, being disrespectful to an adult, not follow directions, having no self discipline, self control, or self awareness. Im not going to tell people how to raise their kids. But to condone this shows me how many have taught their kids to "be funny". If it were me I would have asked them to pose properly and if they couldnt follow directions send them on their merry way. (Im sure not being a pro I dont know all the ends and outs of this) Its some one elses fault or I was just kidding is the biggest cop out blame game bull stuff there is. See how far that gets you on the job, work or in life. Kids were wrong, parents were wrong if you wanna blame some one. I am not in any way a pro. Many of you have seen my crappy work. But as an educator and parent it is no surprise to me the actions of the kids and the defense of the parents. If you wish to call me out so be it. I have 2 college grads working. Both played ball in college. Both grad with honors. and never got in trouble in school. I went to the school at an early age. Called the girls in and told the principal if they ever come in your office light them up. And if you wont call me and I will. Never had a problem with them. They are good hard working tax paying employed kids. Im sure many of yours are too. I never gave them an excuse or a way out. Just their personal responsibility to work hard, do right, and treat others well. I didnt say this because they are my kids. I said this to point out you get what you put into it. You put in work you get rewarded. you put in excuses you get nothing. Some one may go off on this post. Which is fine. Its a free country.

but like my ol coach said

You are either the problem or the solutition

your choice determines that.

and there is some great work on POTN to learn from
I would like to thank all who ahve helped me

LD, FP, Tupper Gang, Malone, Theron, El Ray, Phil Z, Chris S, Campbell and so many others. Thanks from a salppy photog

and no Chet I dont shoot slappys
before you ask


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Apr 12, 2013 14:50 |  #258

jwhite65 wrote in post #15820751 (external link)
I have very high standards and hold my children to them, as well.

I am not questioning your standards...I'm only stating they are different than mine.

As I stated earlier...I don't condemn the daughter's or OP's actions...I just don't happen to agree with them.




  
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Apr 12, 2013 14:50 |  #259

and the OP title shows me alot


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Apr 12, 2013 14:51 |  #260

sophies-mom wrote in post #15820758 (external link)
=sophie's-mom;15820758]I'm basing part of my opinion on my feelings that if the OP never had intentions of purchasing such photos...that his daughter shouldn't have even had photos taken. That she was in line, sat, stated it's how her mom wanted it done...in my opinion, is a waste of time..

I know with my kids, opting out isn't really an option. The school sets a photo day and all the kids get pictures. Because of the kick-back the school gets, they don't want kids sitting out because who knows... maybe they'll take a photo the parents actually like and those parents will then buy them. More money for the school.


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pwm2
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Apr 12, 2013 14:51 |  #261

cdiver2 wrote in post #15820540 (external link)
Read all posts I have said kids will be kids but for a parent to accept bad behavior, laugh about it and then brag about it. There should have been a punishment for the child by the parent grounding/loss of allowance, but the Karma has gone right where it belongs. In my opinion.

No bad behavior there, really. No. If a child sticks out their tongue at me it would be disrespectful. If a girl wants a grave look on her photo that really is her legal right, and it would be directly disrespectful to say she can't do it.

It doesn't matter what economic model that controls this shoot. The photographer or the photographers company can still never put that kind of demands on her - except when she is a payed model or a payed sports start on a contract with them.

And projecting a grown-up model of behavior on a 13yo is still a big failure - a direct logical lapse.


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Apr 12, 2013 14:53 |  #262

Chet wrote in post #15820616 (external link)
And was also a child, you now get my point!

Yes - that you have issues with children. So when you hear stories about other children you will - per implication - also have issues with them.


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autoidiodyssey
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Apr 12, 2013 14:56 |  #263

This thread is crazy. I hesitate to even jump into this, but what the hell.

jwhite65 wrote in post #15820701 (external link)
Very true. I have asked more than once, but have yet to get a response as to exactly what she did that was wrong. I don't see anything, and I'm starting to think no one else does either.

It appears that she has been found guilty of some nebulous charge of instigation. We will never know if she conspired with the other kids to mess with the photographer or actually instigated. It sounds like she had a bit of fun and didn't waste the photographers time. In the end he got a photo of her that will be purchased. If she had just sat there and smiled "like she was supposed to" there would be no sale.

I don't see how you can blame her for the other kids being jackasses. Her striking a pose is very different from what her friend did, actually messing with the photographer and wasting time. Blame that kid and her parents, not the OP.

Who knows maybe some of the other parents will find the "bad" photos funny / cute and, like the OP, buy photos they otherwise wouldn't have. Either way it certainly doesn't seem like an incident worthy of 18 pages of ire.

It has gone from 16 to 18 pages as I have been writing this. Everybody needs to quit screwing around on the photo message board and get back to work. Including me. :p


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w0m
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Apr 12, 2013 14:57 |  #264

autoidiodyssey wrote in post #15820794 (external link)
.
.
.
It has gone from 16 to 18 pages as I have been writing this. Everybody needs to quit screwing around on the photo message board and get back to work. Including me. :p

hehe bw!

I think it's post election drama withdrawal.


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Apr 12, 2013 15:00 |  #265

burnet44 wrote in post #15820770 (external link)
Very intresting comments by everyone here. I have been a teacher/coach/principa​l for 35 years. We all have seen the schools become a parent in many ways to the kids we are sent. Most every thing in many cases comes for the school these days. Food, discipline, school supplies, board for 8 hrs a day, parenting ect. There is a time and place for everything. This wasnt the time and place to "be funny". When you mess with peoples income to me thats basically stealing from them. This girl AND the others who made their on choice to join in are not funny. She gave them the idea but they decided to do their pose too. Each one is responsible for their own actions. Each one. I have also run into many parents who feel the same way that it was just in fun. Those kids usually cut themselves from the team because they didnt have enough personal discipline to follow directions. And I didnt need them anyway. All they would do is screw up for everyone esle at a critical time. Those were kids you couldnt count on. And they eventually decided on their own to quit. It also save the parents the time of coming to talk about their non existant playing time. Less BS I had to listen to. Fun isnt playng with peoples income, being disrespectful to an adult, not follow directions, having no self discipline, self control, or self awareness. Im not going to tell people how to raise their kids. But to condone this shows me how many have taught their kids to "be funny". If it were me I would have asked them to pose properly and if they couldnt follow directions send them on their merry way. (Im sure not being a pro I dont know all the ends and outs of this) Its some one elses fault or I was just kidding is the biggest cop out blame game bull stuff there is. See how far that gets you on the job, work or in life. Kids were wrong, parents were wrong if you wanna blame some one. I am not in any way a pro. Many of you have seen my crappy work. But as an educator and parent it is no surprise to me the actions of the kids and the defense of the parents. If you wish to call me out so be it. I have 2 college grads working. Both played ball in college. Both grad with honors. and never got in trouble in school. I went to the school at an early age. Called the girls in and told the principal if they ever come in your office light them up. And if you wont call me and I will. Never had a problem with them. They are good hard working tax paying employed kids. Im sure many of yours are too. I never gave them an excuse or a way out. Just their personal responsibility to work hard, do right, and treat others well. I didnt say this because they are my kids. I said this to point out you get what you put into it. You put in work you get rewarded. you put in excuses you get nothing. Some one may go off on this post. Which is fine. Its a free country.

but like my ol coach said

You are either the problem or the solutition

your choice determines that.

and there is some great work on POTN to learn from
I would like to thank all who ahve helped me

LD, FP, Tupper Gang, Malone, Theron, El Ray, Phil Z, Chris S, Campbell and so many others. Thanks from a salppy photog

and no Chet I dont shoot slappys
before you ask

Very well written and I agree with most everything. Just one question... Who is to decide what is a "proper pose"? The photographer? The subject?
In this case, the photographer apparently had no issue with the pose, once he made sure it was what she wanted. I'm curious why everyone else has issue with it.


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Apr 12, 2013 15:00 |  #266

jwhite65 wrote in post #15820701 (external link)
Very true. I have asked more than once, but have yet to get a response as to exactly what she did that was wrong. I don't see anything, and I'm starting to think no one else does either.

Well, we all know that a majority of photographers do not make lots of money (at least from photography). Hence a huge percent of people on forums like this are (often very skilled) amateurs with other sources of income.

But there is this collective issue. When there is a chance that a photographer somewhere _might_ have lost money, then the collective can rant about the horrible customer. Never wonder if there might be issues with the business model.

The photographers view on things is that a customer is expected to - nay required to - buy photos. It really doesn't matter if the customer have interests in the photos or not. If a photographer shows up and invests time swinging that camera around like a magic wand, then damn it: anyone caught (or their parents) just better bring the money or they are bad people.


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Apr 12, 2013 15:11 |  #267

Semi-serious question, to those claiming loss of photog revenue, how did he/she loose revenue. It sounds as if this photog made a sale where none would have been before, so, he/she increased revenue.


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Apr 12, 2013 15:11 as a reply to  @ pwm2's post |  #268

School pictures are a racket. The school makes money, the photography company (not the photographer) makes money and the parents get crappy pictures of their kid. When I had step-kids, the picture we got back were junk. I could have done better blindfolded...

The only good school picture I've ever seen is the one my wife had taken of her when she graduated from college.


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autoidiodyssey
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Apr 12, 2013 15:18 |  #269

JWright wrote in post #15820854 (external link)
School pictures are a racket. The school makes money, the photography company (not the photographer) makes money

That brings up a good question. Does the photographer make money off the sales or is he paid hourly by the company to go out to schools everyday and shoot?


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Apr 12, 2013 15:29 |  #270

jwhite65 wrote in post #15820807 (external link)
Very well written and I agree with most everything. Just one question... Who is to decide what is a "proper pose"? The photographer? The subject?
In this case, the photographer apparently had no issue with the pose, once he made sure it was what she wanted. I'm curious why everyone else has issue with it.

tog choses pose the school wants for yearbook
in essence the school chooses them

and thanks

wanna be a clown
use your camera phone and tweet them to all your buds
and join the circus


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Hope my daughter didn't ruin this photographers day too badly.
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