Why no such thing as a "perfect" camera?

Scatterbrained wrote in post #15844022
1/1000 sync speed? Now you just getting greedy.

Well, maybe.

But it's not that I want that as the sync speed, it's that I want that shutter speed at all. I'd be fine with a solution like I have with my Mamiya 645: focal plane shutter that can do 1/1000 and then a leaf shutter lens for when I want a faster sync speed with flashes.

All I really want is a digital rangefinder that I can actually afford.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #15843795
I would look at that camera and say "meh". The perfect camera for me would look a lot different.
Medium format sensor with IBIS. About 80mp variant of the exmore sensor with no AA filter.
Pentax 645 form factor and weather sealing.
1Dx auto focus capabilities scaled up to the medium format sensor.
Magic Lantern type firmware capabilities native, with open source firmware to allow for limitless custom tweaking.
Optional Cambo type attachment to allow for full technical lens movements while retaining complete communication between lens and body.
Viewfinder shutter ala 1D series.
WiFi
Dual CF card slots
3fps
-3 EV AF capabilites ala 6D
Locking mode dial
native 25 base iso

Did I forget anything?

You basically described the Phase One IQ180 digital back, which is already available, bundled with a lens and a body for US $42,000.

MF is great, but where are the long lenses? Personally I would prefer the Pentax 67 form factor, which is of course based on the traditional 35mm form factor. I would want a full 6×7 cm sensor, with at least the linear resolution of the 5DII/III. The only issue would then be the need to find a 2000mm lens and the Scarff Ring type mounting to allow it to be panned, I find even the pintle type fittings (Wimmberly) for tripods to be difficult to pan with while using the viewfinder. Oh AF would be nice too, I'm not too worried about FPS, 3 or 4 would do; but at least 15 shot RAW buffer, and 20+ would be ideal.

Alan

I want a dSLR that supports a removable mount that can be replaced with a lens carousel, so that I can put three fast primes on and swap between them near instantly...

You guys are distorting my point. I am not debating if the perfect camera can or can´t exist, or how would it be. Perhaps I´ve chosen the wrong words for the topic.

My point is: why don´t we see any manufacturer put their very best in one affordable body and crush the competition?
Let me give you an example: if the XPro1 had a full frame sensor, I seriously doubt people would buy a Leica M9 (at the time). The sensor in the XPro 1 is better than the one in the M9. You could use Leica lenses with an adaptor. If it had a good AF as well, many people would skip buying a DSLR because of the small form factor as well.

Does it sound better now?

DC Fan wrote in post #15844314

Scatterbrained wrote in post #15843795
I would look at that camera and say "meh". The perfect camera for me would look a lot different.
Medium format sensor with IBIS. About 80mp variant of the exmore sensor with no AA filter.
Pentax 645 form factor and weather sealing.
1Dx auto focus capabilities scaled up to the medium format sensor.
Magic Lantern type firmware capabilities native, with open source firmware to allow for limitless custom tweaking.
Optional Cambo type attachment to allow for full technical lens movements while retaining complete communication between lens and body.
Viewfinder shutter ala 1D series.
WiFi
Dual CF card slots
3fps
-3 EV AF capabilites ala 6D
Locking mode dial
native 25 base iso

Did I forget anything?

You basically described the Phase One IQ180 digital back, which is already available, bundled with a lens and a body for US $42,000.

You can get an IQ180, DF+, and two lenses for under $40k now; possibly less if you buy used privately, and now that the IQ2 series is out, prices are going to go down even more.

But these backs are not that fast, and neither is the DF+. Maybe Phase One's new rumored camera will be a knockout punch of a machine, but frame rate is still limited by the readout channel bandwidth and onboard memory.

As for ISO25, it's possible as Phase said that is the native ISO of the sensors used in the IQ180, but not every sensor can operate properly at that level, and so the base is ISO35, which I think is plenty low.

Put a 240mm on an 80mp back, crop to 20mp, and voila! You get 960mm of reach. As long as you can consistently get tack sharp photos, it's no problem to crop down to DSLR resolution and still have a better looking image.

It should go without saying, that as you get a reverse-crop effect with larger formats, it takes increasingly long lenses with bigger glass to get the same reach as a smaller camera.

Alex_Venom wrote in post #15844761
You guys are distorting my point. I am not debating if the perfect camera can or can´t exist, or how would it be. Perhaps I´ve chosen the wrong words for the topic.

My point is: why don´t we see any manufacturer put their very best in one affordable body and crush the competition?
Let me give you an example: if the XPro1 had a full frame sensor, I seriously doubt people would buy a Leica M9 (at the time). The sensor in the XPro 1 is better than the one in the M9. You could use Leica lenses with an adaptor. If it had a good AF as well, many people would skip buying a DSLR because of the small form factor as well.

Does it sound better now?

No, because you used Leica as the point of the comparison, and nothing competes with Leica. They exist in their own bubble universe, and people will buy their cameras no matter what's happening elsewhere, because it's Leica.

Why should manufacturers bother making a "perfect" camera? There are no perfect photographers.

20droger wrote in post #15844781
Why should manufacturers bother making a "perfect" camera? There are no perfect photographers.

Yes there is! http://blog.bahneman.c​om/content/ken-rockwell-facts

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #15844793
Yes there is! http://blog.bahneman.c​om/content/ken-rockwell-facts

A true legend in his own mind! (Excuse me while I barf....)

Alex_Venom wrote in post #15842079
I mean... am I the only one here? Don´t you feel things could be MUCH better without much more work?

Put three photographers in a room, and ask them to describe the "perfect" camera. You're guaranteed to get at least four opinions.

DC Fan wrote in post #15844314
You basically described the Phase One IQ180 digital back, which is already available, bundled with a lens and a body for US $42,000.

No, the Phase would have quite a ways to go to match my hypothetical "perfect" camera. For one my camera wouldn't be a digital back, it'd be a single unit, ala the Pentax 645D. . . . . and I don't know anyone who would be willing to do this with a digital back.......http://www.youtube.com …eature=fvwp&v=q​tF4z7uKYoY

The iso performance and speed of the Phase still leave a lot to be desired as well. . . . give me clean iso 6400 and 3 frames per second and suddenly 45k seems like a bargain.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #15844877
No, the Phase would have quite a ways to go to match my hypothetical "perfect" camera. For one my camera wouldn't be a digital back, it'd be a single unit, ala the Pentax 645D. . . . . and I don't know anyone who would be willing to do this with a digital back.......http://www.youtube.com …eature=fvwp&v=q​tF4z7uKYoY

I don't believe you're fimilar with Phase One's testing methods? http://m.youtube.com …trsdSR_67Q&feat​ure=relmfu

cito17 wrote in post #15844166
All I really want is a digital rangefinder that I can actually afford.

This! I'm looking at a used M8, but my DR 'Cron won't fit it.