How do I take this backlit shot? - is it even possible?

sandpiper wrote in post #15848557
I'm the same as you, the distance wouldn't matter to me either. I have been known to do late evening shoots at the other end of the country, finishing after midnight, with a 4 hour drive ahead to get home.

However, we are not all the same. Some people like to always be in bed at a reasonable hour, some have partners that would not be happy with them getting in at a late hour, or they have to be up early for work (postmen etc.). It may be something that we don't think about, but I just accept that the OP has (for them) good reasons for not wanting to do the shoot at 9pm and then get home at whatever time it would mean.

Not everybody has the same freedom to shoot whenever they like, I am lucky in being able to set my own timetable 24/7 and fit work in as I please.

Understood. I guess the thing for me is that if the means are possible (e.g. transportation is physically possible) I don't know why you wouldn't do what your client wants. I could understand if you lived in a location where you were required to use public transportation and it stopped at a certain time... but if you can be there and return without any issues...

Re: the rest... that's just the life that you have to choose as a photographer. Photography is a craft that is based upon light, which means it can also be time based. So, you either have to sacrifice and do these things as your client desires, or choose to not do them and miss out. However, if your client WANTS something, and you choose not to do it, they will probably find someone else who will.

drvnbysound wrote in post #15848646
Understood. I guess the thing for me is that if the means are possible (e.g. transportation is physically possible) I don't know why you wouldn't do what your client wants. I could understand if you lived in a location where you were required to use public transportation and it stopped at a certain time... but if you can be there and return without any issues...

Re: the rest... that's just the life that you have to choose as a photographer. Photography is a craft that is based upon light, which means it can also be time based. So, you either have to sacrifice and do these things as your client desires, or choose to not do them and miss out. However, if your client WANTS something, and you choose not to do it, they will probably find someone else who will.

Yeah, I feel the same way, but not everybody does. Like I say, we are all different. If the OP is unhappy to do an evening shoot then that is for them to decide.

sandpiper wrote in post #15848469
You have misunderstood the situation, the window won't even be in the shot. HDR won't be necessary as the OP is using studio lighting to give the result they want, they just need to kill the ambient coming in from outside.

Yep thats it in one.

drvnbysound wrote in post #15848501
Maybe it's due to my location and transportation availabilities... but I don't understand how distance (too far away) and time of day (night) are related

>> it is about 2 hours away, and her little boy is a real terror into everything. He goes to nursery between 12-5. Hence shooting at 8 or 9 is not ideal.

Nonetheless, I don't know how much ambient light you were 'seeing' via your camera sensor, but you might not necessarily have to cover ALL of the window(s). I've been in a clients home where they had windows lining one side of their main living area... I was doing some child portraits on one side of the room, and just closed the blinds on that side... other windows were left alone. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing... but you may have to make compromises.

>> maybe I could get away with it.

I have to assume that the 7D can shoot at ISO100... can it reach ISO50 (custom functions)? What about pushing your shutter more? Have you tried to see if banding is noticeable at higher shutter speeds? If so, what about framing your subject so that you crop out said banding?

Yes the 7D can shoot at ISO 100. Just thinking that would help a little as its now set at 160. C Fn 1-3 only expands ISO upward from 6,400 to 12,800. The low end stays at 100.
I tried the higher shutter speed and at 320 rather than the max std. Sync speed I do have a banding black blurr on one side. Ref cropping it in vertical mode that would probably mean it would be too thin a picture.
So its just down to ISO 100 and F32. Apparently at F 32 this lens is a little soft ( best sharpness being f8-F11) but surely good enough to get the shot!

sandpiper wrote in post #15848676
Yeah, I feel the same way, but not everybody does. Like I say, we are all different. If the OP is unhappy to do an evening shoot then that is for them to decide.

Totally agree but as explained above, then we have a 3 year old who loves kit! I can see one of the stands and a hot studio flash crashing down. Sweet kid but he is like I was at that age - just loved mechanical things so a few lenses laid out are also a temptation.

Submariner wrote in post #15850795
Totally agree but as explained above, then we have a 3 year old who loves kit! I can see one of the stands and a hot studio flash crashing down. Sweet kid but he is like I was at that age - just loved mechanical things so a few lenses laid out are also a temptation.

Yeah, as I say, I completely understand that people have different priorities. You are a family man and put the family before photography, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm single so only have myself to please.

drvnbysound wrote in post #15848547
Just curious, what direction does this door face?

Have you done natural light shots near the door? What about with a large diffuser (e.g. white sheet) covering it?

I can certainly see where this would be difficult for a family shot, because the falloff would be tough on the other side of the family (opposite the door), but for single portraits, there may be some nice light to be had.

We have done these, its just the backlit shot that is needed; and sadly the window and glass door are on the side. Unfortunately one cant shoot width wise as its too short or we could have used the natural light as pert of the backlight ( and just augmented it with the flashes) .

Guess it is just down to trial and error but many thanks for the ideas. And at least I know I haven't missed some simple switch to deliver the perfect result.
Lets hope it stays sunny like today, maybe some shots on the cliffs or street stuff on the sea-front, could be a consolation if the backlit shot fails.

Nb re dedication to the career, totally agree if its your job you got to go the extra mile. But it definitely is not my job folks - just a hobby. Would be a nice job if it paid!

No I just did a few portraits for a model I knew, who got a number of jobs, And she in turn told some of her model friends, and gave them my number, and then her friend's friends asked could I do a portfolio or more generally a few shots (as they seem to have portfolios already) for them.
Mainly unpaid, TFCD but now and then I get offered a small payment - more like petrol money.
No complaints as some of them are charging £40 to £100 per hour. So if they are free I call it a pretty fair trade.
Also I am still learning and don't have a full frame camera, so can't deliver the highest resolution images. That being said when I look at some of the images done by professional photographers hmmmm I am not always very impressed, in the technical result. And the little 7D's pics certainly don't look overshadowed!

sandpiper wrote in post #15850847
Yeah, as I say, I completely understand that people have different priorities. You are a family man and put the family before photography, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm single so only have myself to please.

Hi Sandpiper, just noticed I said "we have a 3 year old here", I meant to say she. It's the models little boy.
I am married but no kids, it was just the liability thing, of being scared any child might get hurt by my kit.

Why not use a ND filter on the lens?

I do not know the bowens, but if you can shoot at F22 with them and still get enough light, I would go down to F8 and use a 3 stop ND. Or even shoot at f11 with a 3 stop ND to cut out an additional stop of light.

This works outdoors, it should work indoors.

Heath wrote in post #15850906
Why not use a ND filter on the lens?

I do not know the bowens, but if you can shoot at F22 with them and still get enough light, I would go down to F8 and use a 3 stop ND. Or even shoot at f11 with a 3 stop ND to cut out an additional stop of light.

This works outdoors, it should work indoors.

Thanks pretty sure one can shoot at f22 with the bowens the ND filter might remove the ambient light, wonder how much they are? Need to check

have you tried to Hyper Synch with your strobes? YN - 622 triggers will set the 7D to HSS (or you can put a flash on top in HSS and cover it so no output is factored in). Maybe this will pull it off for you?

ksbal wrote in post #15854630
have you tried to Hyper Synch with your strobes? YN - 622 triggers will set the 7D to HSS (or you can put a flash on top in HSS and cover it so no output is factored in). Maybe this will pull it off for you?

I have semi tried i.e. the Bowens can have a flash duration as quick as 1/1100 sec or 1/900 sec.
I was hoping that this was so quick that it might allow me to synch at say 1/500 ormwith a very thin black band just starting - but its not having any of it.
This HSS stuff Canon uses must be pretty dam clever!
Still dont understand how a pulsing strobe manages it yet a really fast or short duration wont? But then electronics weren't my strong point.

Yes I had heard the yn 622 triggers could do Hypersych Which is almost the same as HSS.
It's just with the Summer comming I need to buy another strobe so I am going to get a 600 ex Rt . That unfortunately gobbles up my budget. Odly enough I may do it later as the 622 could enable me to upgrade from optical line of sight triggers on the 7D, 430 ex mk2 and the new 600ex rt. and give me a focus aid strobe to boot. Still can't get over how that STE-3 has no focusing aid!
And with the new 5D3 and 6D focusing in such low light guess it wont be an 'anytime soon' improvement

Submariner wrote in post #15857577
I have semi tried i.e. the Bowens can have a flash duration as quick as 1/1100 sec or 1/900 sec.
I was hoping that this was so quick that it might allow me to synch at say 1/500 ormwith a very thin black band just starting - but its not having any of it.
This HSS stuff Canon uses must be pretty dam clever!
Still dont understand how a pulsing strobe manages it yet a really fast or short duration wont? But then electronics weren't my strong point.

the issue here is that with fast shutter speeds the shutter is never fully open...the second curtain begins it's time across the frame before the first has made its pass.

HSS provides "constant" light for the full duration which creates an even exposure.

The trick is to have the strobe at or near full power for Hypersync. Then your shutter speed will affect the exposure like it was ambient.. so you can be at 1/4000 of a shutter speed, select the appropriate aperture for exposure - or drop the shutter speed slower to increase exposure. I dont' know if it will get you there for the particular light conditions, but it is worth exploring. I'll try to do a test - inside next to my patio door -friday.

HSS is just a way to make the capacitor of the flash last a bit longer.

If burning all in a single pulse, that pulse will still be too short for the camera. So the slit will not have enough time to move all the way over the sensor.

With HSS, they split the charge in the flash into many small pulses. For every pulse, the slit have moved a bit further. With enough number of short pulses, your camera will pick up what it thinks is even light. And it will think you had a magic flash that could generate a single (but much weaker) pulse that lasted the full shutter travel time (which can be way longer than the configured ss time).

So HSS isn't magic. It isn't advanced. But it isn't trivial to know what software communication to perform between flash and camera to let them agree that HSS will be used.