Upgrade from 20D, what to buy? 1DsII or 5DII?

Hello folks,

after a long time without following the activities of Canon or the forum, I have decided that it is time to look into upgrading my trusty 20D.

The reasoning behind that is that so far I had concentrated on adding lenses to the body, I now typicall use the Sigma 10-20/4.0, the Sigma 30/1.4, the Canon 50/1.4 and the Canon 80-200/2.8L. I also have a Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tokina 17/3.5 and some M42 primes (e.g. the CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5), but use these rarely.

What am I looking into? Hmm, full frame would be great, low light performance would certainly be appreciated, and great AF performance would also not go amiss. Problem is, I really do not know what of those I want most. Probably a good compromise?

The 1Ds II, the 1D II, and the 5D II were at some point in time my unattainable dream cameras (at their launch prices). Right now I have the feeling that now is the moment where I can get more from buying a new (used) body than adding more lenses to my existing 20D. My budget would be around EUR 1.000, which should buy any of these. I am not so much looking into getting another crop camera like the 60D or 7D or similar, but I might also pick up an Eos M as addition to the "big" camera.

So, any great tips? Have I forgotten anything?

Best regards,
Andy

Well, what is most important to get? Each of those bodies has a different strength, so you need to rank them in order of preference. You also don't mention other capabilites being of interest - such as video or the MUCH better LCD of the 5dm2 (you can actually see it in daylight!). Personally I would say the only thing the 1dm2 does better is the frame rate, but if you are okay with the 5fps of the 20d then the 1dm2 doesn't really bring anything over the 1ds2 or 5d2. So, that probably limits your real choices to the 5d2 and 1ds2:
- The 5dm2 has almost exactly the same AF as the 20d, so 1ds2 has far better AF
- The 5dm2 has better high ISO, more mpix, video, and a far superior LCD to the 1ds2
- The 5dm2 uses newer batteries and can go gripless, so can be lighter and more compact than the 1ds2
- The 1ds2 is weather sealed and built like a tank

IMHO if you are generally happy with the 20D and are just looking to upgrade image quality and high ISo performance, the 5d2 makes the most sense. If you are frustrated with the 20d's AF, then the 1ds2 is the way to go

timbop wrote in post #15859552
Well, what is most important to get? Each of those bodies has a different strength, so you need to rank them in order of preference. You also don't mention other capabilites being of interest - such as video or the MUCH better LCD of the 5dm2 (you can actually see it in daylight!). Personally I would say the only thing the 1dm2 does better is the frame rate, but if you are okay with the 5fps of the 20d then the 1dm2 doesn't really bring anything over the 1ds2 or 5d2. So, that probably limits your real choices to the 5d2 and 1ds2:
- The 5dm2 has almost exactly the same AF as the 20d, so 1ds2 has far better AF
- The 5dm2 has better high ISO, more mpix, video, and a far superior LCD to the 1ds2
- The 5dm2 uses newer batteries and can go gripless, so can be lighter and more compact than the 1ds2
- The 1ds2 is weather sealed and built like a tank

IMHO if you are generally happy with the 20D and are just looking to upgrade image quality and high ISo performance, the 5d2 makes the most sense. If you are frustrated with the 20d's AF, then the 1ds2 is the way to go

I would concur that the 5D MII would make the best choice based on the OP's criteria.

Andy_T wrote in post #15859445
I now typicall use the Sigma 10-20/4.0, the Sigma 30/1.4, the Canon 50/1.4 and the Canon 80-200/2.8L. I also have a Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tokina 17/3.5 and some M42 primes (e.g. the CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5), but use these rarely.

Andy_T wrote in post #15859445
I am not so much looking into getting another crop camera like the 60D or 7D or similar

The only thing to note here is that if you do jump to full frame (or aps-h), then you won't be able to use the Sigma 10-20 or the Sigma 30mm f1.4... If that's fine then great, but if you want an UWA for the FF body then you're going to need another lens, for example. If, however, you're happy with your lens line up and the field of view you get currently, then why not seriously consider the 7d? It's got both great AF and better low-light performance over the 20d.

Don't get me wrong, I get the FF appeal, and I've been sucked in myself, however, your crop-only lenses are worth throwing into the mix when making a decision

I have a 20d and had a 1ds mark 1 (now have a 5d), so while not exactly your list maybe i can still help a little. The 1ds was a fantastic camera in every(autofocus, IQ, build) way except its battery. I bought a few third party replacements and they were ok but still not fantastic. Its image quality in my opinion was at low ISOs (<400) better than any camera I ever had, but it did suffer above this. The 1ds mark II is supposedly better in every regard (same battery though). I would highly recommend this camera,

If however you don't need such a heavy camera the 5d II is a great choice

Chris,

thank you for your input!

Yes, I agree, the more I look at it, the more the 7D looks like "exactly what I want". That is what I thought when I first heard about that camera, apart from the launch price, unfortunately.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Another Advantage of the 7D might be that my wife might not necessarily notice that I have a new camera, hmmm...

If you don't shoot many moving subjects I'd go 5d2. The IQ and high ISO performance will be well ahead of your 20d. AF, frame rate and build are the areas where the 1d series excel.

Oklaiss,

as you have both the 5DII and the 60D, how would you compare these two on image quality?

As I said, I still use my 20D, as it is still capable of making good photos. Of course, there are limitations (e.g. night shots without a tripod) and action shots, where I have to stop down my lenses in order to get more safety on DOF to account for less-than-perfect AF performance - which is of course difficult as the ISO then quickly becomes the limiting factor, with me using the (quite grainy) 1600 setting on my 20D quite often and the 3200 when need be (better to get a grainy image than no image at all).

I am still using my 30/1.4 and 10-20 quite heavily and guess they would perform well on the 7D. On the 5D I guess I would mostly use the Tamron 28-75/2.8, Canon 50/1.4, Canon 80-200/2.8L and the Tokina 17/3.5 prime (which would not be a bad setup I guess).

Best regards,
Andy

5D Mark II prices seem to be all over the place. Not too bad if you buy second-hand, but I'd almost rather get the 6D. I think it stacks up pretty well to the 5D and betters it in the performance of the sensor, while not losing much in other areas.

As posted in another thread, have a gander: http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/canon-eos-6d
Interestingly, while they criticize it a bit for having only one cross-type focus point, they also say that focus point leads the class in low-light sensitivity. Sounds like a winner if you don't need many AF points and can deal with stationary (or nearly so) subjects.

If you go FF, what are you going to do about lenses? Is your 1000EUR budget exclusive of lens upgrades, or is it for everything? FF will leave you with 50mm as your widest lens. Yes, you can mount your Sigma DC lenses on the FF bodies, but you will get hard vignetting.

As you seem to have started to realise, the 7D may be your best option now; better high ISO performance, better AF, and you can still use all your lenses.

It's been a while since I researched the subject, but on a FF body isn't there a risk of mirror actually hitting back of the DC lens (or some of them)?
I thought 1.3 crop bodies were safe, FF risky (or smashy)

The OP also mentioned a Tamron 28-75/2.8 and a Tokina 17/3.5. Both of these cover the 135 (APS) sized sensors. I'd say that lens line up will work fine regardless of the class they buy into.

And as far as I know, the only EF mount (i.e. Non adapted) lenses that create a risk fouling the mirror are EF-S lenses, and only if you modify them to remove something on the back of the lens.

Yes, the Tokina 17/3.5 and Tamron 28-75/2.8 are Full Frame lenses for the EOS mount.

While you can technically use both the 10-20 DC and the 30/1.4 DC on a full frame camera without fear of problems with the mirror, you will most likely get vignetting issues (though I still think that the 10-20 might work out to, say, 14 mm without too much vignetting).

All that, of course, makes the 7D so attractive.

And of course, yes, I would certainly love the 6D or the 1Ds MK IV, but those are, as of now, out of my budget.

Best regards,
Andy

The 1Ds2 uses the old 1D batteries. Those can be fuzzy and worn out and third-party batteries often don't work right (bad fit). There is no automatic sensor cleaning and the LCD sucks. I think the 1Ds2 is a bit overpriced used, the 1D2 is priced more correctly and is essentially the same technology - with drawbacks.

The 5d2 has the simple autofocus, not much else wrong with it except I'd like to have another memory card slot. The 5d2 AF is primitive but within it's limitations reliable and accurate, possibly more so than 5d3 for single AF points. If you don't go after moving targets (birdwatching, airshows) it is a very good camera. Also a great base for messing with vintage lenses.

uOpt wrote in post #15865302
The 1Ds2 uses the old 1D batteries. Those can be fuzzy and worn out and third-party batteries often don't work right (bad fit). There is no automatic sensor cleaning and the LCD sucks. I think the 1Ds2 is a bit overpriced used, the 1D2 is priced more correctly and is essentially the same technology - with drawbacks.

The 5d2 has the simple autofocus, not much else wrong with it except I'd like to have another memory card slot. The 5d2 AF is primitive but within it's limitations reliable and accurate, possibly more so than 5d3 for single AF points. If you don't go after moving targets (birdwatching, airshows) it is a very good camera. Also a great base for messing with vintage lenses.

Wow, you shoot with 5dmk3?