Help with adjusting lower layers in PS

So, I'm learning PS, using a bit of everything from everywhere. Mostly, right now, I'm using Kelby Training. In the video, they do some adjustments, when retouching, on blank layers and on adjustment layers, and periodically, they are using the CTRL+Shift+E to flatten and copy the layer. They are saying that it preserves your layers, in case you need to go back and change something later.

I was under the impression that if you flatten, you can no longer adjust. So, I made a few adjustments on a few layers and used the CTRL+Shift+E to flatten and copy (less than 20 steps, just to make sure that wasn't the problem), then tried to adjust something on a lower layer. I can see the change to the layer mask, but the top copy is not updated with the changes. Am I missing something? Or are they incorrect in what can be adjusted after flattening and copying? Maybe there's another step to update the layers above? They don't actually do this in the videos, they just say how it flattens and combines your adjustments into a copied layer and preserves the layers below it.

I'm using CS6. I did search, but no results come up. Perhaps I don't know how to phrase it correctly.

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939686
”…they are using the CTRL+Shift+E to flatten and copy the layer. They are saying that it preserves your layers, in case you need to go back and change something later…..”

Actually, what you are doing is copying and flattening those layers to a new, consolidated or combined layer. This lets you make adjustments, like sharpening, to a “fresh” layer, but preserves the lower layers.

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939686
“…I was under the impression that if you flatten, you can no longer adjust….”

That is correct. Once you flatten the layers, and they disappear in the sidebar, they are gone.

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939686
…So, I made a few adjustments on a few layers and used the CTRL+Shift+E to flatten and copy (less than 20 steps, just to make sure that wasn't the problem), then tried to adjust something on a lower layer. I can see the change to the layer mask, but the top copy is not updated with the changes. Am I missing something?...”

To view those changes that you have made, you need to either ERASE that top consolidated layer, or at least turn off the visibility (click on the eyeball). Then make another consolidated or combined layer with the changes.

Also note: I work on a Mac, so the keystroke is CMD+OPT+SHIFT+E. On a PC, I always THOUGHT the keystroke would be CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+E… are you sure you’re using CTRL+SHIFT+E, or am I wrong about the PC keystrokes?

seres wrote in post #15939925
Actually, what you are doing is copying and flattening those layers to a new, consolidated or combined layer. This lets you make adjustments, like sharpening, to a “fresh” layer, but preserves the lower layers.

That is correct. Once you flatten the layers, and they disappear in the sidebar, they are gone.

To view those changes that you have made, you need to either ERASE that top consolidated layer, or at least turn off the visibility (click on the eyeball). Then make another consolidated or combined layer with the changes.

Also note: I work on a Mac, so the keystroke is CMD+OPT+SHIFT+E. On a PC, I always THOUGHT the keystroke would be CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+E… are you sure you’re using CTRL+SHIFT+E, or am I wrong about the PC keystrokes?

Okay, so essentially, you do have to lose some of your work if you decide later you are not happy with it.

You are right, the alt key is in the sequence. I forgot about it when I was typing. It's like when you have to pretend to dial a number to give it to somebody... I just had to go through the motions and said, "Damn, he's right!" LOL

Thanks for the reply!

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939956
Okay, so essentially, you do have to lose some of your work if you decide later you are not happy with it....!

Yes, when you erase that top layer, it's gone.

If you had layers above that consolidated layer (sorry, I'd just try it, but I'm about to head to bed, no rush on an answer for tonight), then they were based on what was contained in that layer, correct? Are they now basically just garbage? Or, do they automagically become based on the next layer down?

Thanks again, for your help. I tried asking the instructors, in the video, but they just kept right on talking... almost like I wasn't even there. So rude....

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939686
So, I'm learning PS, using a bit of everything from everywhere. Mostly, right now, I'm using Kelby Training. In the video, they do some adjustments, when retouching, on blank layers and on adjustment layers, and periodically, they are using the CTRL+Shift+E to flatten and copy the layer. They are saying that it preserves your layers, in case you need to go back and change something later.

I think you're confusing two seperate commands:
1. CTRL + Shift + E is the Merge Visible command
2. CTRL + ALT + Shift + E is the Stamp Visible command

The Merge Visible command combines all visible (that is, the visibility "eye" icon for the layer is turned on) layers into a new layer but does not preserve the existing layers

The Stamp Visible command combines all visible layers into a new composite layer containing all your adjustments while preserving the existing layers.

To clarify terminology, you aren't "flattening" your image. In Photoshop, the Flatten command works on all layers whether or not they are visible (the "eye" is turned on). Merge Visible and Stamp Visible only incorporate layers that have their "eyes" turned on. If all the layers in your layer stack are visible then there's no difference between Flatten and Merge, but there are instances when layers aren't visible. If you then use the Flatten command, you'll receive a prompt stating that you have "hidden" layers and asking if you want to discard them.

What I think the tutorial is saying is that the Stamp Visible command preserves the layers you've worked on so far. So that if you change/modify any of those previous layers, you simply delete the merged layer (generally at the top of the layer stack) and create a new one that incorporates the changes made in the lower layers.

PixelMagic wrote in post #15939980
I think you're confusing two seperate commands:
1. CTRL + Shift + E is the Merge Visible command
2. CTRL + ALT + Shift + E is the Stamp Visible command

The Merge Visible command combines all visible (that is, the visibility "eye" icon for the layer is turned on) layers into a new layer but does not preserve the existing layers

The Stamp Visible command combines all visible layers into a new composite layer containing all your adjustments while preserving the existing layers.

To clarify terminology, you aren't "flattening" your image. In Photoshop, the Flatten command works on all layers whether or not they are visible (the "eye" is turned on). Merge Visible and Stamp Visible only incorporate layers that have their "eyes" turned on. If all the layers in your layer stack are visible then there's no difference between Flatten and Merge, but there are instances when layers aren't visible. If you then use the Flatten command, you'll receive a prompt stating that you have "hidden" layers and asking if you want to discard them.

What I think the tutorial is saying is that the Stamp Visible command preserves the layers you've worked on so far. So that if you change/modify any of those previous layers, you simply delete the merged layer (generally at the top of the layer stack) and create a new one that incorporates the changes made in the lower layers.

Yes, it is the stamp visible command... I did forget to put the alt key in the original post. It was explained as flattening, but I'm new to PS, so don't know all the proper terms yet.

While the practical effect is to flatten your layers (this assumes all your layers are visible) the commands work slightly differently so its important to learn the correct terms. Also, by default the Flatten Image command does not have a keyboard shortcut; it can only be accessed from the Layers menu.

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939989
Yes, it is the stamp visible command... I did forget to put the alt key in the original post. It was explained as flattening, but I'm new to PS, so don't know all the proper terms yet.

MedicinSC wrote in post #15939965
If you had layers above that consolidated layer, then they were based on what was contained in that layer, correct? Are they now basically just garbage? Or, do they automagically become based on the next layer down?....

Any ADJUSTMENT LAYER that you create will “flow down” and affect the layers below, until those changes hit a “solid” or fully pixilated layer.

You consolidated or combined lower adjustment layers into a flattened “solid” layer (above them). Any new adjustment layers you create above that consolidated layer will “flow down” until those adjustments reach that consolidated “solid” layer, and stop. But if you remove or delete that consolidated “solid” layer, the changes will continue to flow down until they hit another “solid” layer.

You could delete or turn off that consolidated or “solid” layer to allow adjustment to flow down, or simply move any higher-level adjustment layers to a lower place on the layer stack, and bypass that “solid” layer.

Any time you move an adjustment layer, you may change the look of your final image, depending on the blend mode, opacity, etc. of that adjustment layer.

It sounds complex, but after you work with it awhile, it suddenly becomes easy. Well, at least easier.

seres wrote in post #15940020
Any ADJUSTMENT LAYER that you create will “flow down” and affect the layers below, until those changes hit a “solid” or fully pixilated layer.

You consolidated or combined lower adjustment layers into a flattened “solid” layer (above them). Any new adjustment layers you create above that consolidated layer will “flow down” until those adjustments reach that consolidated “solid” layer, and stop.

I don't use Consolidated Layers, so what I'm thinking of may not apply, but in my experience Adjustment Layers affect all the layers below them unless they are locked to one particular layer by Ctrl-clicking between the AL & the layer below it.

Instead of using ctrl+alt_shft+E (StampVisible) try selecting all the layers except Background, then right-click on one and choose Convert to Smart Object. This will merge the selected layers into a Smart Object. You can add layers to the top. If you need to re-edit a layer in the Smart Object either double click the thumbnail or right-click and choose Edit Smart Object. This will open in another document (psb) and show the original layers. Finish editing and then Save which will update the original document. Hope this makes sense.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #15940713
I don't use Consolidated Layers, so what I'm thinking of may not apply, but in my experience Adjustment Layers affect all the layers below them unless they are locked to one particular layer by Ctrl-clicking between the AL & the layer below it.

Thanks!

D Thompson wrote in post #15941644
Instead of using ctrl+alt_shft+E (StampVisible) try selecting all the layers except Background, then right-click on one and choose Convert to Smart Object. This will merge the selected layers into a Smart Object. You can add layers to the top. If you need to re-edit a layer in the Smart Object either double click the thumbnail or right-click and choose Edit Smart Object. This will open in another document (psb) and show the original layers. Finish editing and then Save which will update the original document. Hope this makes sense.

This does make sense... and it seems like a great idea!