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Thread started 17 May 2013 (Friday) 19:10
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luvdsny
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May 18, 2013 06:49 |  #16

rockygarcia wrote in post #15943070 (external link)
My humble opinion is that the best beginners starter kit is the T4i kit with at 18-55is and 50-250is. Good camera and, for the price, solid starter lenses.

Rockygarcia - I know the 18-55 is a "standard lens" is the 50-250 a zoom lens? Again, I am really new to this.

Thank you to all that posted. Gives me lots to think about. I feel more comfortable purchasing used equipment and leaving the "new is better" mind frame behind. Since I am transitioning from a point and click, the rebel line sounds like a good start for me. Do more advanced photographer look at the rebel line as amature-ish? Leaning towards the t4i now. Did I hear there was a recall on these? This would be corrected if I buy refurbished, correct?


- Melissa
"Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - Unknown.
Canon EOS Rebel T3i, Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm and 55 -250mm lens. EF 50mm lens.

  
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kcbrown
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May 18, 2013 07:58 |  #17

luvdsny wrote in post #15943393 (external link)
Rockygarcia - I know the 18-55 is a "standard lens" is the 50-250 a zoom lens? Again, I am really new to this.

Thank you to all that posted. Gives me lots to think about. I feel more comfortable purchasing used equipment and leaving the "new is better" mind frame behind. Since I am transitioning from a point and click, the rebel line sounds like a good start for me. Do more advanced photographer look at the rebel line as amature-ish? Leaning towards the t4i now. Did I hear there was a recall on these? This would be corrected if I buy refurbished, correct?

I wouldn't regard the Rebel line as amateurish or anything like that. Their image quality is just as good as their more advanced brethren. But they're (relative to their more advanced brethren) lacking in capability in terms of speed, autofocus, build, etc.

If you're going to be buying used anyway, then you may as well consider cameras that will cost the same as or less than the Rebels you're considering, but which will give you quite a lot more capability. The 40D does precisely that. The only place where it falls behind the T4i is very high ISO image quality and resolution (the 40D is 10 megapixels, the T4i is 18 megapixels). People who are new to photography get hung up on megapixels, but in reality, 10 megapixels is plenty for pretty much everything, and it's only if you're a serious professional landscaper that you're likely to find use for much more.

There is one capability the T4i has that the 40D doesn't have: video. However, as nice looking as the video from modern DSLRs is, the fact of the matter is that DSLRs have horrible ergonomics for shooting video. A real video camera is much better suited for that role, because its ergonomics have been designed for it, whilst the ergonomics of a DSLR are designed around shooting still pictures. You can't use the viewfinder of a DSLR to shoot video because the mirror which reflects the scene into the viewfinder is lifted while the video is being recorded.


Bottom line: if you're just interested in shooting still shots, then the 40D is about as good as you're going to be able to get for the money while being considerably below the price you'd pay for a T4i.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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sharod
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May 18, 2013 08:31 |  #18

luvdsny wrote in post #15943393 (external link)
Leaning towards the t4i now. Did I hear there was a recall on these? This would be corrected if I buy refurbished, correct?

Info about the recall http://www.usa.canon.c​om …il&docId=0901e0​24805ba6ce (external link)

You know, Canon is having their refurb sale. I just picked up my first DSLR. I got a refurbished T4i with the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens for $735. Also picked up a prime lens, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM.

It had that new camera smell ;). Checked the shutter count first thing through EOScount, a total of 29 clicks.

Very happy with my purchase!!!!


Sharon
A camera didn't make a great picture anymore than a typewriter wrote a great novel.
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/slo103/

  
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kozal01
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May 18, 2013 08:35 |  #19

kcbrown wrote in post #15943522 (external link)
I wouldn't regard the Rebel line as amateurish or anything like that. Their image quality is just as good as their more advanced brethren. But they're (relative to their more advanced brethren) lacking in capability in terms of speed, autofocus, build, etc.

If you're going to be buying used anyway, then you may as well consider cameras that will cost the same as or less than the Rebels you're considering, but which will give you quite a lot more capability. The 40D does precisely that. The only place where it falls behind the T4i is very high ISO image quality and resolution (the 40D is 10 megapixels, the T4i is 18 megapixels). People who are new to photography get hung up on megapixels, but in reality, 10 megapixels is plenty for pretty much everything, and it's only if you're a serious professional landscaper that you're likely to find use for much more.

There is one capability the T4i has that the 40D doesn't have: video. However, as nice looking as the video from modern DSLRs is, the fact of the matter is that DSLRs have horrible ergonomics for shooting video. A real video camera is much better suited for that role, because its ergonomics have been designed for it, whilst the ergonomics of a DSLR are designed around shooting still pictures. You can't use the viewfinder of a DSLR to shoot video because the mirror which reflects the scene into the viewfinder is lifted while the video is being recorded.


Bottom line: if you're just interested in shooting still shots, then the 40D is about as good as you're going to be able to get for the money while being considerably below the price you'd pay for a T4i.

Good info there ^^

One thing to consider with a body like the 40D though is the storage. Bodies like the newer Rebel's (T3,T3i, T4i ect) and the 60D is that they use SD cards for storage while the "older" bodies like the 40D use CF cards for storage which for some can be an issue since they are getting harder to find and most computers dont support that media without an adapter. May not be a deal breaker for most but for me that was important.

I started with an older Rebel body (XS/ 1000D) and when I was looking to upgrade I looked closely at the T3i and T4i as well as the 60D. Comparing specs on paper the T4i looked great and has some awesome features but after handling each of them in person the larger and easier to control 60D was an easy choice. The veiwfinder is better, the ergonomics are better (for me) and Ive found the top LCD to be VERY handy. But, my point is to handle a few of them, see what fits your hand better, which ones controls are easier to get to for you ect.


60D<>Rebel XS <>Canon 15-85 USM<>Canon 18-55 Kit <>Canon 75-300 III USM<>Canon 50 1.4 USM<>Canon 430 EX II

  
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Mavgirl
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May 18, 2013 09:09 |  #20

mafoo wrote in post #15942964 (external link)
Here is my 2 cents.

The T3 sucks. Any DSLR from Canon in the last 3 years, that is not the T3, is a good camera. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Well, the OP was asking about the T3i and not the T3. They are two different cameras.


6D/50D/350D with too many lenses
Calumet 4x5, Pentax SV 35mm, Canon A-1, Rebel G and many more toys...

  
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mafoo
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May 18, 2013 09:26 |  #21

Mavgirl wrote in post #15943654 (external link)
Well, the OP was asking about the T3i and not the T3. They are two different cameras.

Yea, I was just stating, because he is new to this, that if he finds a good deal on a model used that in a T2i or better, he can't go wrong.

Aside from the T3, they are all good cameras. The 40D (from 2007) is a good camera as well.


-Jeremy
5D Mk II | SL1 | 24-105 f4.0L IS | 70-200 f2.8L IS | S35 1.4 | 40 2.8 Pancake | Samyang 14 2.8 | 430EX II

  
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luvdsny
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May 18, 2013 12:12 |  #22

kcbrown wrote in post #15943522 (external link)
I wouldn't regard the Rebel line as amateurish or anything like that. Their image quality is just as good as their more advanced brethren. But they're (relative to their more advanced brethren) lacking in capability in terms of speed, autofocus, build, etc.

If you're going to be buying used anyway, then you may as well consider cameras that will cost the same as or less than the Rebels you're considering, but which will give you quite a lot more capability. The 40D does precisely that. The only place where it falls behind the T4i is very high ISO image quality and resolution (the 40D is 10 megapixels, the T4i is 18 megapixels). People who are new to photography get hung up on megapixels, but in reality, 10 megapixels is plenty for pretty much everything, and it's only if you're a serious professional landscaper that you're likely to find use for much more.

There is one capability the T4i has that the 40D doesn't have: video. However, as nice looking as the video from modern DSLRs is, the fact of the matter is that DSLRs have horrible ergonomics for shooting video. A real video camera is much better suited for that role, because its ergonomics have been designed for it, whilst the ergonomics of a DSLR are designed around shooting still pictures. You can't use the viewfinder of a DSLR to shoot video because the mirror which reflects the scene into the viewfinder is lifted while the video is being recorded.


Bottom line: if you're just interested in shooting still shots, then the 40D is about as good as you're going to be able to get for the money while being considerably below the price you'd pay for a T4i.

Kcbrown - thank you for your input, just when I think I have come to a conclusion there is more to consider. :D


- Melissa
"Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - Unknown.
Canon EOS Rebel T3i, Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm and 55 -250mm lens. EF 50mm lens.

  
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luvdsny
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May 18, 2013 12:14 |  #23

mafoo wrote in post #15943687 (external link)
Yea, I was just stating, because he is new to this, that if he finds a good deal on a model used that in a T2i or better, he can't go wrong.

Aside from the T3, they are all good cameras. The 40D (from 2007) is a good camera as well.

Mafoo - Thanks for the input, I could see how someone new doing research could confuse a t3 and t3i.


- Melissa
"Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - Unknown.
Canon EOS Rebel T3i, Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm and 55 -250mm lens. EF 50mm lens.

  
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casaaviocar
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May 18, 2013 15:27 |  #24

luvdsny wrote in post #15943393 (external link)
Rockygarcia - I know the 18-55 is a "standard lens" is the 50-250 a zoom lens? Again, I am really new to this.


Both of these lenses are zoom lenses. A zoom lens covers more than one focal length, and "zooms" between the focal lengths. A lens with an 18mm focal length is considered a wide angle lens, 55mm would be considered a short telephoto (long focus) lens. A telephoto lens is one that magnifies the subject with a subsequent narrower field of view (width of the subject captured in the frame). So the 55-250 is a short to mid telephoto lens.

This tool from Tamron will help you visualize focal lengths. (external link)


Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal -ekg-

  
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kcbrown
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May 18, 2013 15:47 |  #25

luvdsny wrote in post #15944061 (external link)
Kcbrown - thank you for your input, just when I think I have come to a conclusion there is more to consider. :D

You're very welcome.

If you're looking for used bodies, KEH is a pretty decent place for them. Their prices might be a little higher than what you'd pay on the forums here, but they have a 14 day return policy and a 60 day warranty on the equipment they sell, and the actual condition of the equipment is, in my experience, generally better than the code they use to indicate it would suggest.

Here's a link to a listing of all the Canon bodies they have for sale at the moment: http://www.keh.com …=DC&ccode=2&cc=​80166&r=WG (external link)


The interesting thing here is that if you want to get into digital SLR photography for really cheap, you can. There are DSLR bodies for sale there in the $100 range that will work perfectly for learning the craft, but they won't be as capable as the 40D in terms of speed, autofocus, etc. The Digital Rebel (EOS 300D) is perhaps one of the best for that because it can take Canon EF-S lenses. KEH has those for just over $100. Here's dpreview.com's review of it, which will provide an excellent description of it: http://www.dpreview.co​m/reviews/canoneos300d (external link).


In the used market, you have a ton of options. If you really want to just get your feet wet with DSLR photography and want to spend minimal money doing it, you could do a lot worse than the 300D ("Digital Rebel"). Note that the 300D has a size comparable to the 30D, 40D, etc., rather than being the much smaller size of the Rebel XT (300D) and later. It shares the same basic sensor as the EOS 10D, and the 10D is known for its outstanding low ISO image quality and, especially, its color rendition. You can find a number of threads on it, e.g. here and here.

If you want a camera you can keep for a long time but that is still ultra-cheap for its capability, go for the 40D. It holds its own against even today's cameras. If you want a camera you can use to learn the fundamentals of photography but want to pay minimal money for it, get the 300D (Digital Rebel), which KEH currently sells here: http://www.keh.com …1/sku-DC029990814130?r=FE (external link). Note that if you go that way, you'll almost certainly want to get the hacked firmware for it which allows you to do a number of things with it that the standard firmware won't let you do, thus making it the equivalent to a 10D in nearly every way (except perhaps for the 1/8000 of a second fastest shutter speed of the 10D -- the 300D goes to 1/4000 of a second, just like all cameras in the Rebel series). A good article on the hacked firmware is here: http://www.bobatkins.c​om …_rebel_firmware​_hack.html (external link). There's also a POTN thread on the firmware here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=34000

All these cameras take compact flash cards, but because they're not producing 18 megapixel monster size files, the smaller CF cards will work nicely, and those can be had for roughly $20 each (for 4G cards).

You'll also need postprocessing software. Even if you're going for ultra-cheap, I wouldn't skimp on this. I'd go straight for Lightroom, which costs about $100 right now, which is a steal for the capability it provides. After light and composition, postprocessing will have the most impact on your images.


Honestly, I'd just go for the 40D. While it's $250 more than the 300D, it's way more camera, you won't have to screw around with hacked firmware, it'll be a camera you can keep using for a very long time, and it can become a solid backup camera if you decide to buy something new later on (e.g., if you decide to go full frame).


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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mine1
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May 18, 2013 18:59 as a reply to  @ kcbrown's post |  #26

This is probably the best bang for your buck you can find at the moment(also the reason your try at the loyalty program didn't work is because they are having a sale that is the same as the loyalty discount). http://shop.usa.canon.​com …uct_10051_10051​_283207_-1 (external link)

There isn't really much left for lenses (last week would have been a better time but ohh well), but that would get you started and well below budget (you can save the excess for when you figure out what else you might want).


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/81190407@N08/ (external link)
Canon 60d.Canon 18-135, 55-250 II, and 10-18 stm. and Benro C-1681t Travel Angel, with Sirui K20x head.

  
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mine1
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May 18, 2013 19:01 as a reply to  @ mine1's post |  #27

I would also say pick up a 55-250 IS used you can find them here for 150.


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/81190407@N08/ (external link)
Canon 60d.Canon 18-135, 55-250 II, and 10-18 stm. and Benro C-1681t Travel Angel, with Sirui K20x head.

  
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luvdsny
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May 18, 2013 19:57 |  #28

casaaviocar wrote in post #15944493 (external link)
Both of these lenses are zoom lenses. A zoom lens covers more than one focal length, and "zooms" between the focal lengths. A lens with an 18mm focal length is considered a wide angle lens, 55mm would be considered a short telephoto (long focus) lens. A telephoto lens is one that magnifies the subject with a subsequent narrower field of view (width of the subject captured in the frame). So the 55-250 is a short to mid telephoto lens.

This tool from Tamron will help you visualize focal lengths. (external link)

Casaaviocar - Thank you for that great explanation.


- Melissa
"Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - Unknown.
Canon EOS Rebel T3i, Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm and 55 -250mm lens. EF 50mm lens.

  
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luvdsny
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May 18, 2013 20:12 |  #29

mine1 wrote in post #15944994 (external link)
This is probably the best bang for your buck you can find at the moment(also the reason your try at the loyalty program didn't work is because they are having a sale that is the same as the loyalty discount). http://shop.usa.canon.​com …uct_10051_10051​_283207_-1 (external link)

There isn't really much left for lenses (last week would have been a better time but ohh well), but that would get you started and well below budget (you can save the excess for when you figure out what else you might want).

Mine - Now that make sense on the loyalty program not being a big advantage due to the sale. I am not looking to purchase to quickly, so I will keep my eye out. Thanks for your input and suggestions.


- Melissa
"Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - Unknown.
Canon EOS Rebel T3i, Kit Lens EF-S 18-55mm and 55 -250mm lens. EF 50mm lens.

  
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