5D II which focus point to use?

Hey guys, got a problem. I currently use a 5D2 and have been shooting model portraits with my 70-200mm f2.8L IS II. When shooting vertical portraits, I use the top dot since it is closest to the eye and recompose slightly, and shoot. It produces very sharp photos everytime.

However, I now have a Sigma 85mm f1.4 which I want to use. However, I've noticed that with such a shallow DOF at f1.4, the focus on the eyes is soft when using the top focus point. Yes, I've used really fast shutter speeds too.

I tried using the center focus point on the eyes (no recomposing), and the eyes came out perfectly sharp! I already know all the focus points (except the center) are non-cross focus points, so they don't focus as well as the center.

My question is... what's the best way to focus on the eyes with a shallow DOF? I can't use center dot, then recompose... dof is too shallow to allow that much of a recomposition. If I use the top dot, it's focus is off.

Technically, wouldn't any focus point when recomposing yield the same result....hence the term "focus/recompose". Sounds like 1.4 is your issue. Not the focus part.
Are you using back button focus?

You can produce a decent bokeh at 5.6 if you needed to so why soot a full portrait at 1.4?

Actually, 5.6 for a full length shot might not produce that with the 85. Nice bokeh with any full length portrait isn't that easy.

You may have to shoot the portrait with the focus point on the eye without recomposing and then crop. The 5D II produces large files so it shouldn't be a problem to crop a little.

Like ganginwood I think the issue is the vanishingly small depth of field with f/1.4. Choose a more sensible aperture and it should improve.

ganginwood wrote in post #15943345
Technically, wouldn't any focus point when recomposing yield the same result....hence the term "focus/recompose". Sounds like 1.4 is your issue. Not the focus part.
Are you using back button focus?

You can produce a decent bokeh at 5.6 if you needed to so why soot a full portrait at 1.4?

No, the focus/recompose works well when you have some DoF margin. As the DoF gets narrower, you get issues with the recompose, because you change the distance to the subject in relation to the focus distance the camera thought it focused on.

If you aim your camera straigt at a wall, the distance from you to the wall is shortest at the center focus point. There is a larger distance from you to wall at the side focus points, since that "ray" is slightly sideways.

The camera takes this into account when you focus with one of the side focus points. But whenever you turn the camera, the distance from you to wall will change for that focus point - and so will it for every other focus point.

At f/1.4, there aren't much room for any recompose without this distance change will be more than what can be covered by the DoF.

Another thing is that it works better to recompose with a tele lens than with a wide lens. For a wide lens, each focus point represents a larger twist of the camera because of the much larger viewing angle.

Another point to keep in mind, is that people rarely stand perfectly still, Whilst recomposing, are you sure that you aren't swaying forwards or backwards an inch or two, or the model is. There is a small time gap between locking focus and shooting, while you recompose and wait for the perfect expression or pose. At f/1.4 it takes very little movement, from either model or photographer, or both, for the focus to miss and you get a soft result. Something as simple as the model running her hand through her hair, to tidy it, can result in the eyes being a little nearer or further away, as the head invariably moves as well.

I think you will find that the problem is just that you are shooting with such a narrow DoF that any movement at all and you get soft shots, recomposing isn't helping that either.

Can you not stop down a little and move the model further from the background? That would preserve your background blur in most cases, but give you more leeway to keep the model sharp.

thanks for the tips guys. yes, I could always close down my aperture for more DOF... but my question is how should I focus if I wanted to use f1.4 since the top focus point isn't cross type. I've seen people using the 85mm f1.2 shooting at 1.2 get sharp shots, but they use a 5D III which has cross-focus points all over the place instead of just the center like the 5D II does.

I WANT to shoot 1.4, I know it's shallow DOF, but people out there get perfectly sharp shots still regardless. I want to learn how they do it.

pwm2 wrote in post #15943408
No, the focus/recompose works well when you have some DoF margin. As the DoF gets narrower, you get issues with the recompose, because you change the distance to the subject in relation to the focus distance the camera thought it focused on.

If you aim your camera straigt at a wall, the distance from you to the wall is shortest at the center focus point. There is a larger distance from you to wall at the side focus points, since that "ray" is slightly sideways.

The camera takes this into account when you focus with one of the side focus points. But whenever you turn the camera, the distance from you to wall will change for that focus point - and so will it for every other focus point.

At f/1.4, there aren't much room for any recompose without this distance change will be more than what can be covered by the DoF.

Another thing is that it works better to recompose with a tele lens than with a wide lens. For a wide lens, each focus point represents a larger twist of the camera because of the much larger viewing angle.

Agree with you. That's why recomposing isn't an option for me at 1.4. If the top focus point was cross-point and was accurate, I'd get sharp shots all the time. I'm guessing I'll need to use the center point to get the focus spot on, and shoot with the model's eyes in the center of the frame, then crop closer.

goldboughtrue wrote in post #15943403
You may have to shoot the portrait with the focus point on the eye without recomposing and then crop. The 5D II produces large files so it shouldn't be a problem to crop a little.

Thanks for the tip. I was leaning towards doing this.

ganginwood wrote in post #15943345
Technically, wouldn't any focus point when recomposing yield the same result....hence the term "focus/recompose". Sounds like 1.4 is your issue. Not the focus part.
Are you using back button focus?

You can produce a decent bokeh at 5.6 if you needed to so why soot a full portrait at 1.4?

f5.6 isn't exactly good bokeh IMO. the reason I got my 85mm 1.4 is to shoot at 1.4. I'd use my kit lens if I wanted to shoot at 5.6 It's the only reason I got the lens actually. I was fine shooting with my 70-200mm at 2.8, but I wanted even more blur without having to step back so far.

"f5.6 isn't exactly good bokeh IMO."

Watch out there.

f/5.6 instead of f/4 or f/2.8 or f/1.4 controls the amount of DoF.

But if the bokeh looks good or not is controlled by the shape of the aperture blades, and the number of aperture blades.

Bokeh isn't the name of the amount of blur. It is how the blurred objects gets blurred. Take a closer look at an out-of-focus round light source with different lenses and you'll see how their design affects the blur.

pwm2 wrote in post #15945842
"f5.6 isn't exactly good bokeh IMO."

Watch out there.

f/5.6 instead of f/4 or f/2.8 or f/1.4 controls the amount of DoF.

But if the bokeh looks good or not is controlled by the shape of the aperture blades, and the number of aperture blades.

Bokeh isn't the name of the amount of blur. It is how the blurred objects gets blurred. Take a closer look at an out-of-focus round light source with different lenses and you'll see how their design affects the blur.

my mistake. yeah, i understand the difference between quality of bokeh and amount of DOF. thanks for warning me haha. what I meant was, I want a shallow dof

A shallow DoF is an absolute pain in the ----!

Even f/2.8 is too tight for my liking.

Lowner wrote in post #15945879
A shallow DoF is an absolute pain the ----!

Even f/2.8 is too tight for my liking.

True... It's a pain. Which is why so many ppl say it takes a lot of skill to learn how to shoot at 1.2 or 1.4. I desperately want to learn!!!