Photoshop-what stage to soft proof/when to edit for color shift?

A complete printing novice here and with much trepidation have finally got round to trying to print colour
(using Ps CS4 + Imageprint 8, PPC Mac on 10.4.11, I shoot in RAW and open my images in 16 bit ProPhoto, into Photoshop, after basic adjustments in LR or ACR)

I have put the profile for my chosen paper (via Imageprint profile manager) into photoshop and chosen that under proof setup. I notice a dramatic color change: from orange/red to magenta in the strongly (orange/red) coloured area of the image

A version I saved to sRGB as a jpeg doesn't appear to shift colour (noticably) when I turn on soft proofing.

So what does this tell me and what should I do? Should I now re-edit the image so the softproofed (magenta) version looks as I wish, should I have done that right at the outset of opening the image instead of after hours of PP, is there something I'm missing?

thanks

[ATTACHed images are screengrabs]

How are you softproofing? I'd expect a change in the red, but certainly not to that kind of magenta…
Did you untick "preserve RGB numbers?

Post a screenshot with the settings used maybe?

3 links from the "Color problems?" thread in my sig that might help:
http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorial​s/soft-proofing.shtml
http://luminous-landscape.com/videos/c​amera-print.shtml
http://www.creativepro​.com …proofing-in-photoshop-6-0

René Damkot wrote in post #15957649
How are you softproofing? I'd expect a change in the red, but certainly not to that kind of magenta…
Did you untick "preserve RGB numbers?

Post a screenshot with the settings used maybe?

How am I softproofing...photosh​op>view>proof setup>select icc profile (installed by Imageprint)
then command+Y turn on/off

'preserve RGB numbers' where would I find that?
thanks for the links 0I'll check them out

I embarrasingly admit that the reason I got imageprint is because the whole process of printing sends shivvers up my spine, to attemtping through photoshop etc is something I'd rater not get involved with if possible

I have been thinking about this and really do wonder whether there isnt a simpler explanation, because for exampele the 8bit jpeg does not make this huge shift when I soft proof it ofr drag it into imageprint application, unlike the 16bit version e.g. have I done something daft when setting the assigning or converting the colour space?

Perhaps this will shed some light on things : the original was pretty bland so I converted to LAB via IMAGE>MODE>LAB color, once I had finished with changing the colours I reverted it back to RGB, also via IMAGE>MODE>RGB, being unsure of quite how to go about this I also ( I think) went to EDIT>CONVERT TO PROFILE and set it to the paper profile

I got pretty confused at one point and may hav gone back and forth making different settings to see if it made any difference

Perhaps someone could advise me what the seetings SHOULD be and what the correct process is for chnaging from one colur mode to another etc

Sorry for all the hassle

So, it appears that your image came into PSCS4 in ProPhotoRGB color - maybe from a raw conversion? THen you do your thing in PS and you are ready to print. So, you soft proof in PS by going to View > Proof Set Up >Custom and select your print/paper profile. That is where you will see the Preserve RGB numbers check box. You will likely want to uncheck that if, for some reason, it is checked.

Once you have your soft proofing set up for your particular print/paper profile, you can also see what areas of the image are going to give you trouble by checking the gamut warning (CMD-SHIFT-Y). If you made moves in LAB to increase saturation (bringing in the endpoints in the A and B channels) you may have created colors, especially reds, that are not printable in the printer/paper gamut. This is a problem with using LAB to boost color without taking into consideration the output color space. ProPhotoRGB is a large gamut color space as well, so those reds and oranges may be perfectly happy in ProPhotoRGB, not so happy in the printer/paper color space.

As far as shifting to magenta, I have no experience with that printer/paper combination.

kirk

kirkt wrote in post #15962727
So, it appears that your image came into PSCS4 in ProPhotoRGB color - maybe from a raw conversion? THen you do your thing in PS and you are ready to print. So, you soft proof in PS by going to View > Proof Set Up >Custom and select your print/paper profile. That is where you will see the Preserve RGB numbers check box. You will likely want to uncheck that if, for some reason, it is checked.

Once you have your soft proofing set up for your particular print/paper profile, you can also see what areas of the image are going to give you trouble by checking the gamut warning (CMD-SHIFT-Y). If you made moves in LAB to increase saturation (bringing in the endpoints in the A and B channels) you may have created colors, especially reds, that are not printable in the printer/paper gamut. This is a problem with using LAB to boost color without taking into consideration the output color space. ProPhotoRGB is a large gamut color space as well, so those reds and oranges may be perfectly happy in ProPhotoRGB, not so happy in the printer/paper color space.

As far as shifting to magenta, I have no experience with that printer/paper combination.

kirk

thanks Kirk, wel what you describe , that's what I did

So it is still a mystery why sucha big shift

Well, if the red is way outside of the printer/paper gamut, it needs to be brought into gamut - the "how" it is brought back may explain why it appears that way. Difficult to know without the specific image and profile to check.

kirk

kirkt wrote in post #15963060
Well, if the red is way outside of the printer/paper gamut, it needs to be brought into gamut - the "how" it is brought back may explain why it appears that way. Difficult to know without the specific image and profile to check.

kirk

OK - anything I can post here to help suss that out?
or suggestions how to bring it back - curves, hue/sat - is there a preferred way?

Can you post a link to download the image in ProPhotoRGB with your edits? - that is, the image that you then viewed in softproof mode that went all crazy magenta.

kirk

Go view > proof setup > Custom…
What does it say?

Screenshot via Google: http://www.gballard.ne​t …p/epson/cs6/#so​ftproofing

René Damkot wrote in post #15964005
Go view > proof setup > Custom…
What does it say?

Screenshot via Google: http://www.gballard.ne​t …p/epson/cs6/#so​ftproofing

this:

Note that this image has the same issue

In the last case, your input image is "Untagged RGB". Either the image had no profile, and you didn't assign one, or it had a profile and you stripped it.
Anyhow, the image is shown as if it had your default working RGB embedded. And I assume (not sure, since I never came across it) that PS will also assume the default RGB working space when doing the softproof…

Anyhow, back to the issue at hand.
Like Kirk, I'd like to see the ProPhotoRGB image. (size doesn't matter much, as long as it is ProPhotoRGB profile)

Might be the profile is a bit whacky.

Here are two screenshots (don't mind the actual colors. Wide gamut screen, not sure how well (if at all) Monosnap handles color management. Sorry for the annoying popup):
First is a Granger chart in ProPhotoRGB, original and softproofed for Innova Fibaprint paper ion my R2880, second is the same, side by side with a softproof for Epson Premium Glossy paper.

The second looks a bit more well behaved, yet both produce good enough prints for normal images…

I don't see a color shift like you are experiencing in either…