Yongnou Upgrading Questions

Regarding the auto mode by the way, that only works with one flash off camera. Otherwise the other flashes mess up each others metering.
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oldvultureface wrote in post #15961277
In addition to ksbal's explanation, the equivalent would be manual external metering with the 580EX II (EM mode). It works pretty well with the old auto flashes but not so well with the 580. It gets kinda-sorta close if you set ISO 100 on the flash and shoot at ISO 400 with the camera.

580EX II EM mode fired off-camera with simple trigger:


Sunpak PZ5000 AF auto mode:


Minolta 118X auto mode:

Ummm Yeah, they did some auto exposure. But the are missing the E the T a the T and the L that make up ETTL. Thryristor flashes were okay, but its not ETTL or even psuedo ETTL as there is no metering.

Thanks elv!!!

elv wrote in post #15962115
The YN-568EX are $187 with Amazon Fulfillment right now. Which is hard to beat with fast local shipping (and quick simple return if there is an issue).

The same seller has the YN-622C at $85, which is the current lowest Amazon Fulfilled price going as well.
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gonzogolf wrote in post #15962904
Ummm Yeah, they did some auto exposure. But the are missing the E the T a the T and the L that make up ETTL. Thryristor flashes were okay, but its not ETTL or even psuedo ETTL as there is no metering.

Actually, there is some metering. It's done in the flash by the "magic eye" (as they used to call it 40-odd years ago ). No zooming, just an integrated reading of a (roughly) 45° f.o.v. and moderated by the aperture and ISO set on the flash.

I always found the flash-controlled "Auto" metering with my 4 Metz flashes to be closer to the desired effect than camera-controlled TTL (as it was then). As Frank Cricchio was wont to say (in a different context, but still exposure-related), "Close enough for Government work".

We've moved on, with ETTL superceding TTL and ETTLII moving on yet further - but all that really has changed in the most basic terms is the location of the metering and the degree of control over the area being metered. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose .

Whortleberry wrote in post #15963451
Actually, there is some metering. It's done in the flash by the "magic eye" (as they used to call it 40-odd years ago ). No zooming, just an integrated reading of a (roughly) 45° f.o.v. and moderated by the aperture and ISO set on the flash.

I always found the flash-controlled "Auto" metering with my 4 Metz flashes to be closer to the desired effect than camera-controlled TTL (as it was then). As Frank Cricchio was wont to say (in a different context, but still exposure-related), "Close enough for Government work".

We've moved on, with ETTL superceding TTL and ETTLII moving on yet further - but all that really has changed in the most basic terms is the location of the metering and the degree of control over the area being metered. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose .

It cuts its output, but it has no relationship to the metering system of the camera. Trust me I'm old enough to have used my fair share of thyristor flashes that I know the system well. But the letters ETTL have meaning, none of which apply to a thyristor. And not close enough for government work, spent 20 years plus with the government.

gonzogolf wrote in post #15963623
It cuts its output, but it has no relationship to the metering system of the camera. Trust me I'm old enough to have used my fair share of thyristor flashes that I know the system well. But the letters ETTL have meaning, none of which apply to a thyristor. And not close enough for government work, spent 20 years plus with the government.

Uh huh - It cuts the output. But it knows/knew when to cut the output by metering the amount of reflected light in the flash unit. Without metering in the flash, there'd have been no way of determining when to quench the discharge. Hence my contention that there is metering; just "Not as we know it, Jim". Sheer pedantry on my part, of course.

BTW, in my hearing Frank never actually specified quite which Government - we can but assume.
Actually, as tax-payers don't we all work for our respective Governments (albeit somewhat grudgingly )

If your camera does not have hot shoe or any kind of R/C, but is a late model full featured non-slr, how does one control the remote flashes? I understand onboard flash sensing by the remote, but is there another way? That way, your onboard won't interfere with the desired effect.

buffumjr wrote in post #15965578
If your camera does not have hot shoe or any kind of R/C, but is a late model full featured non-slr, how does one control the remote flashes? I understand onboard flash sensing by the remote, but is there another way? That way, your onboard won't interfere with the desired effect.

I have, with my wife's point and shoot, used an external flash indoors to bounce extra light into a scene. The remote flash (with a built-in optical trigger) fires with the preflash of the P&S and its light is included in the camera's metering. The flash fires again (if its power is set to where it can fire multiple times rapidly) with the actual exposure.

The output of the on-board flash is somewhat reduced because of the stronger burst of the remote during the metering preflash.

Direct flash and bounce with remote flash:

oldvultureface wrote in post #15966364
(if its power is set to where it can fire multiple times rapidly)

interesting point about lower power on the off camera flash. any idea where one might see a problem with firing twice in such rapid order?

also, you can cover the on camera flash with a piece of unexposed but developed chrome film. that will block "all" of the visible light but allow the infrared light though to fire the optical slave on the off camera flash.

you'll probably see me repeat this advice ad nauseam because i think it's so cool.

well and because I have so little else of use to offer.

hes gone wrote in post #15966446
=he's gone;15966446]any idea where one might see a problem with firing twice in such rapid order?

In the above picture, the remote flash was set to ¼ power and at that setting there's enough reserve in the capacitor to fire twice without the need to recharge.

hes gone wrote in post #15966446
=he's gone;15966446]also, you can cover the on camera flash with a piece of unexposed but developed chrome film. that will block "all" of the visible light but allow the infrared light though to fire the optical slave on the off camera flash.

Good idea.

hes gone wrote in post #15966446
=he's gone;15966446]... and because I have so little else of use to offer.

Wow! Yes! My Canon sx160 is DOES have three flash settings, min, med, max. I LIKE the exposed film option! I don't see a "pre-flash" setting in the menus. I DO see Red-eye lamp, Saferty FE, Red-eye Corr. Does one of them turn on pre-flash? Or, should I use the S2 setting on a speedlight, so it fires off the main flash?

Considering two speedlights, Yongnuo yn560 iii and Neewer TT560. Thoughts? Am working with a budget a five year old would mock. Leaning toward the yn, as, if I upgrade to a real SLR with a hot shoe, this one already has R/C built in. The Neewer has only flash sensitivity and reading the hot shoe.

Great advice. Thanx.

I wouldn't try to use the auto thyristor flash for a key or a fill.. but for a kicker or a rim.. I've had very good success with them - and yes the other flashes were manual or even ettl and the use of the older flash this way didn't throw it off, for me. JMHO, your mileage may vary.

buffumjr wrote in post #15967036
Wow! Yes! My Canon sx160 is DOES have three flash settings, min, med, max. I LIKE the exposed film option! I don't see a "pre-flash" setting in the menus. I DO see Red-eye lamp, Saferty FE, Red-eye Corr. Does one of them turn on pre-flash? Or, should I use the S2 setting on a speedlight, so it fires off the main flash?

The preflash is the camera's way of determining flash exposure. It sends out a measured burst of light at the moment the shutter is pressed and calculates, from the light that is reflected back to the camera, how much light to emit at the moment the shutter opens. So there is a double flash, one to determine exposure and one to take the picture. The preflash is not something you select; it's something the camera does automatically to set flash exposure.

Looking at the 160's manual, it appears to use a preflash for exposure determination as FEL (flash exposure lock) is an option. If the S2 setting is used, the remote flash ignores the camera's preflash and fires only with the actual exposure. What I did was use the equivalent of S1 so the remote fires with the preflash also. This way, the remote's light is included in the camera's flash exposure calculations prior to taking the picture.

Thank you soooo much!

Maybe you can help. I could not find FEL in the manual. In P mode or M mode, i-Contrast was available. Was that what you meant? (page 83)

Now, to decide. Two Neewers or one Yongnuo.

AND being a home shop machinist, I can make any booms, brackets, mounts I can imagine.

buffumjr wrote in post #15967295
Maybe you can help. I could not find FEL in the manual. In P mode or M mode, i-Contrast was available. Was that what you meant? (page 83)

The flash section starts on page 98 of the manual I downloaded from usa.canon.com. Flash exposure lock is explained on page 100.