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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 28 May 2013 (Tuesday) 02:18
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What is it with photos on a disc?

 
rivas8409
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May 28, 2013 02:18 |  #1

I'm getting a little irritated. I'm trying to get my part-time photo business up and running but I dont want to slave away for hours to just "give away" my photos on a CD or DVD. The bad thing is that it seems like every photographer in my market area offers all their photos from a session on a disc with "printing rights" for $50-$100.

I don't want to succumb to doing that in order to start getting clients through the door but it's frustrating that THAT'S what people are looking for now and will go to the photographer who does that...even if the photos are point-n-shoot quality. Should I just give in to the photos on a CD/DVD craze and give up on prints? I would prefer to see my photos sell as prints, but now-a-days it seems like no one wants to buy quality prints.

Any opinions? Advice? Thanks guys!


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memoriesoftomorrow
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May 28, 2013 03:41 |  #2

I'm embracing the fact that the world is being digitised. If fact I just promoted today that my "low resolution files" are now 2048 pixels on the long edge. Specifically for taking advantage of facebook's download option.

At the end of the day you have to have a product people want. If your photography isn't distinctive enough and your service/experience doesn't stand out enough people will compare on the only thing left... inclusions and price.


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Trailboy
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May 28, 2013 06:15 |  #3

It's now the industry standard, with lots of previously stuck up photographers bemoaning the 'shoot and burn idiots' now having to offer it.

Whether this is a good or bad thing I'm not sure; I offer it for weddings but not for portraits. They can get a digital version of an image only if they buy a certain print at a certain price.




  
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Littlejon ­ Dsgn
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May 28, 2013 09:33 as a reply to  @ Trailboy's post |  #4

I for one prefer to deliver on a disk with a list of recommended print labs. Just price your disk option where you still make money. 99.9% of the images I give to the client never make it past facebook, and they are ok with that.

Now I make it clear up front that I will not be providing all the images from the shoot, I still weed out the bad shots then have the client pick a pre determined number of images to have edited.

I also provide a full res image along with a smaller social media image that includes a watermark (most clients have no problem using the watermarked image for social media).




  
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tlzimmerman
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May 28, 2013 11:12 |  #5

rivas8409 wrote in post #15974482 (external link)
I'm getting a little irritated. I'm trying to get my part-time photo business up and running but I dont want to slave away for hours to just "give away" my photos on a CD or DVD. The bad thing is that it seems like every photographer in my market area offers all their photos from a session on a disc with "printing rights" for $50-$100.

I don't want to succumb to doing that in order to start getting clients through the door but it's frustrating that THAT'S what people are looking for now and will go to the photographer who does that...even if the photos are point-n-shoot quality. Should I just give in to the photos on a CD/DVD craze and give up on prints? I would prefer to see my photos sell as prints, but now-a-days it seems like no one wants to buy quality prints.

Any opinions? Advice? Thanks guys!

Your work must be high enough quality or unique enough to create demand. If your work is at that level, people are willing to pay more for it. You either have to compete with turn and burn photographers, or be better than them, and I don't just mean better at photography, better businessmen, better customer service, better experience...etc.


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rivas8409
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May 28, 2013 17:58 |  #6

Thanks for advice guys. I do have a question though, when you say you offer a hi-res image how hi-res do you mean?


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Tom ­ Reichner
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May 28, 2013 18:27 |  #7

rivas8409 wrote in post #15974482 (external link)
I don't want to succumb to doing that in order to start getting clients through the door but it's frustrating that THAT'S what people are looking for now and will go to the photographer who does that...even if the photos are point-n-shoot quality. Should I just give in to the photos on a CD/DVD craze and give up on prints? I would prefer to see my photos sell as prints, but now-a-days it seems like no one wants to buy quality prints.

Any opinions? Advice? Thanks guys!

One of the first "rules" of business is that you need to provide what there is a market for; what people want.

Generally speaking, people don't want prints anymore. Why? Well, people don't look at prints like they used to. The vast majority of the people in the world today spend far more time looking at their computer monitors, smart phone screens, and iPads than they do looking at their walls. At least in developed countries they do.

Hence, people want digital files so that they can post their photos to their Facebook page, their websites, their blogs, and their digital photo albums.

Think about it - would you want a print? What for? To hang on a wall? Would you ever really bother to look at something that's hanging on your wall? I have no desire for such a thing, and most of my friends & family have no use for such a thing. With a print, every time you look at that wall, there it is - the same print. Today, we have "Visual ADD": we are used to being able to see something new and different every few seconds. We can do this with digitally displayed images - play a slideshow in which the image changes every 5 or 6 seconds. Or, after a minute of viewing a photo, we can click our mouse and view a different photo. By comparison, having a spot on the wall "clogged up" with just one image is boring. It is not dynamic; not ever changing. And, whether for the good or to our detriment, that is what we are used to these days, and what we demand. We all have visual overload and our eyes want to be continually stimulated with new, fresh images.

Your customers most likely have no desire for prints, either. So, why not give them what they want to pay money for, instead of insisting on selling them what you want them to buy?


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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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May 28, 2013 18:42 |  #8

Why does including photos on a disc necessarily mean that you have 'give[n] away' your photos ? Charge accordingly. If your competition consists of photographers charging $50 for a disc, then perhaps the problem is that you aren't producing work that distinguishes you from them.

rivas8409 wrote in post #15974482 (external link)
I'm getting a little irritated. I'm trying to get my part-time photo business up and running but I dont want to slave away for hours to just "give away" my photos on a CD or DVD. The bad thing is that it seems like every photographer in my market area offers all their photos from a session on a disc with "printing rights" for $50-$100.

I don't want to succumb to doing that in order to start getting clients through the door but it's frustrating that THAT'S what people are looking for now and will go to the photographer who does that...even if the photos are point-n-shoot quality. Should I just give in to the photos on a CD/DVD craze and give up on prints? I would prefer to see my photos sell as prints, but now-a-days it seems like no one wants to buy quality prints.

Any opinions? Advice? Thanks guys!



christopher steven b. - Ottawa Wedding Photographer

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JeremyKPhoto
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May 28, 2013 18:45 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #9

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May 28, 2013 18:58 |  #10

I give out websized, watermarked images with each shoot, and then make a gallery where prints can be ordered from.

I would say "people don't want prints anymore" is half true. Everybody wants canvases now.



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JeremyKPhoto
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May 28, 2013 19:39 as a reply to  @ Christopher Steven b's post |  #11

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sandpiper
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May 28, 2013 19:45 |  #12

Ratjack wrote in post #15977183 (external link)
People go and buy a Rebel with a kit lens and immediately start "operating a business" with no business license, no insurance, and no business plan. They will offer to shoot for $50 and include 20 images on a disc. They are able to do this because they have no expenses. While it is very hard to slash your own price to try and compete, it seems like this is what it is coming to. And eventually this will cause professional photographers to start dropping since their revenue will have a hard time exceeding expenses, especially considering their time.

I see this a lot in the forums but, frankly, if you are having to slash your prices to compete with people who have just "gone out and bought a rebel with kit lens", then how good is your work?

If you are a good photographer you should be able to deliver results that are far better than somebody who has just bought a camera and decided to be a professional photographer. If your results are better, then you compete on quality, not price. There are photographers out there who charge high prices, and they don't moan about beginners with basic gear charging a fraction of what they do.

They may charge a couple of thousand to shoot a wedding, but they are not concerned about the people charging a couple of hundred because they are targeting different clientele. It's the same as Rolls-Royce not worrying about Hyundais being available at a fraction of the price. Some people will always buy on price, wanting the cheapest job done and not caring about quality. Those are the people you are targeting by trying to compete on price and match those shooting for $50. If you work is better, then charge accordingly and target those who buy on the quality of the results, not who is cheapest.

Ratjack wrote in post #15977183 (external link)
if I am lucky to get 2 people a month then $50 from each person goes towards my yearly expenses. Then there is wear and tear on my car, gas, time. If I cut my prices down to what local kit lens shooters are doing then I may be able to have a higher income working at McDonalds.... Sad but true.

Seriously, if you are shooting at rock bottom prices, and only getting 2 customers a month, then something is very wrong with your marketing or your photography. At that level, people will pay someone $50 rather than a slightly better photographer $60, simply to save money. Don't cut your prices, show that your work is significantly better and worth $300 (or more), and target clients who value quality.

Of course, if your work isn't any better than those who charge $50, your only option is to do what they do, and try and be the cheapest guy out there. But that is not a viable business long term.

Above all, don't moan that some people are dirt cheap and you have to lower your prices to compete with them. Rather, try and raise your quality to compete with the guys who are charging good money for a quality job, and go for the customers with money to spend. Once you are attracting customers who want quality, and are prepared to pay for it, you won't worry about the guys with a rebel and a kit lens stealing your business, any more than Rolls-Royce worries that Hyundai is taking their customers away.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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May 28, 2013 19:47 |  #13

Ratjack wrote in post #15977362 (external link)
Or people are just really cheap and not willing to pay for quality. Same reason why some people buy cheap things from wal-mart because Home Depot is more money lol.

Personally, I will always pay more for higher quality, but other people see things like 20-30 images for $40 and decide there is no way they would pay more. It's sad... but people are REALLY cheap.

Are they really cheap though? Or is that just your perception of them? The value you are placing on photographs isn't the same as the value they place on them.

If they are in the majority does that make them wrong... I'd sooner think that photographs are just worth less than photographers in general would like them to be. Paying market value for something doesn't make a consumer "cheap".


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May 28, 2013 19:59 |  #14

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #15977397 (external link)
Are they really cheap though? Or is that just your perception of them? The value you are placing on photographs isn't the same as the value they place on them.

If they are in the majority does that make them wrong... I'd sooner think that photographs are just worth less than photographers in general would like them to be. Paying market value for something doesn't make a consumer "cheap".

Some people are cheap, some people value quality. Neither group is "wrong", they just have different values. Some people simply don't have the money to be anything BUT cheap, others can afford to splash thousands on wedding photography.

For some people a portrait of their kid just needs to have their kid in it and be slightly better than they can shoot on their 'phone, and they want to get it for just a few bucks. Others see the value in good lighting, composition etc., and are prepared to pay for a really good quality image. If you can produce the latter, don't mess about trying to attract clients who don't care about quality and just want it cheap.




  
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JeremyKPhoto
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May 28, 2013 20:18 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #15

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