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Thread started 30 May 2013 (Thursday) 19:06
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Cannot take photos at my daughters recital??? please read statement by dance studio

 
stillinamerica
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Jun 02, 2013 17:35 |  #46

My girl is in K3. They have loads of events and I like to attend. I like to bring my camera also, normally I stay at the back and stand where no one sees me, take a few pics and sit down and enjoy.
However I always take a few pics of every kid, 16 kids, and however is next to my daughter normally gets in a few more pics. I post to fb, tag the parents.

By the end of this year, parents were asking for their kids to be next to mine. Haha. People stopped taking pics period and waited for my ones. I didn't mind doing it at all, just a few extra clicks of the shutter.

When she had her ballet recital, no one bothered taking pics, I made sure I got everyone and everyone was happy. The k-3 and k-4 did three dances each. I shot my daughters during one and enjoyed her other two. Everyone is happy.


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Talley
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Jun 03, 2013 19:30 |  #47

GerryDavid wrote in post #15992541 (external link)
Since there isnt a hired photographer, you should ask if you can do pictures next time, since you want to take pictures anyways. :)

You will get a good reserved seat, you will be closer so you dont have to crop or get people in front of you, and you could make some extra money. :D

Even if you didnt get permission I wonder what they would do if you snuck in your camera and started taking non flash pictures. They don't want to piss off the parents so they probably wouldn't do much. :)

So there ended up being a guy sitting in the back about 10' further than me, had a big tripod and a body that couldn't tell what was and a white zoom lens didn't make out what it was. Turns out he is just a dad of one of the dancers and got permission to take photos. See here:

https://picasaweb.goog​le.com …hkey=Gv1sRgCLuh​0YjHrqfsKA (external link)

Ended up his gear was 5D2 w/ 70-200 2.8 with a 2x TC. He shot the entire event in manual mode ISO 1600, 1/250, and 5.6 for an indoor venue. I was stunned because I didn't think there was a hired photographer and this guy where here. Then the intro lady said cameras are ok just NO flash, which I did bring my gear just in case. I feel bad for the guy because most of his photos are motion blurred and underexposed and needs to be PP better.

Maybe I will try to get in for next year. I've been happy with my work thus far, too bad I didn't get the perferred shooting location (my seat with heads in way LOL)

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pyrojim
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Jun 03, 2013 20:04 |  #48

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #15984272 (external link)
It's par for the course. These dance competitions are serious money making ventures, and the rules are quite strict, and apparently in some cases they are enforced quite draconian.

I have come across this in three ways, 1st as the Tech Director of a desirable venue where these outfits would rent the place, so I got quite familiar with the rules, and got to know and well, not quite respect, but understand and work with the exclusive photographers.

-Then as a father who already knew the drill and thus was "happy" to just pay the exclusive photog,

-Lastly, as the father that some twit on the staff accused of taking photos with my cell phone ( ironic, I know, Nila's grandparents, who were looking for the venue called, and I was simply giving directions and then turning the phone off so it wouldn't ring again!) The twit asked to see the phone, I showed her the powered off phone. She said "You turned it off!" and I said, "yes?" She called their security over, and I was removed from the venue because I refused to hand over my phone!

I wouldn't move until I watched my Kid dance, and then "left" and they lost the sale of their damn photos.

Seriously, the only option is to buy the damn thing, just like your only option is to pay for the damn over priced costume and the damn over priced everything involved with the "Award Mill"

If i had my druthers, Nila would not be involved, but she is and until she decides she doesn't like it, I will support her. But I can;t see paying for the photos after last months encounter.


When you were removed did you end up missing your child's performance? I can't imagine where the heck some people get empowered to say to a paying customer "hand me your property or be removed"

The sad part is the owners of the venue probably don't even care.


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i_am_cdn
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Jun 04, 2013 12:37 |  #49

just shot a recital the other day as the official photographer. I was situated in the middle of the concert hall just above stage level, so I had about 15 rows in from of me. I was amazing on my wide shots how many iphone screens were being held up in the air. practically everyone seemed to be recording the event on their phone. If I were sitting behind any of them trying to watch the stage, their phones would have been a huge distraction.

I agree with the no camera policy during performances, not as a photographer, but as a patron who would like to watch the performance. Besides dress rehearsals are a far better time to take photos anyway.

If I could I would always shoot during a rehearsal, so that I don't have to disrupt the proud parents sitting around me. In this last case I had no choice but to shoot the performance, but the Dance Studio made sure that they say "friendlies" around me that understood that I was there for the Studio.


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photoguy6405
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Jun 04, 2013 19:59 |  #50

Their venue, their rules. Yes.

Disagree that they're "being fair", they're just protecting the own, and the official photog's, money interest.

I also disagree that these types of restrictions are reasonable to begin with.

So, we're back to "their venue, their rules". Like I said, yes, but just because you can doesn't mean you should, and it is my (minority, I'm sure) opinion that the parents are the ones getting screwed in situations like this.


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LincsRP
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Jun 05, 2013 16:30 |  #51

photoguy6405 wrote in post #16000405 (external link)
Their venue, their rules. Yes.

Disagree that they're "being fair", they're just protecting the own, and the official photog's, money interest.

I also disagree that these types of restrictions are reasonable to begin with.

So, we're back to "their venue, their rules". Like I said, yes, but just because you can doesn't mean you should, and it is my (minority, I'm sure) opinion that the parents are the ones getting screwed in situations like this.

It's simply business. I turn up. Shoot and get sales. The average attendee go to work and get paid. The difference is I'm speculating for sales and they're on an hourly rate with sick pay, holidays etc.

They choose to buy or not but, as pointed out other attendees shooting with ipads and other gadgets do spoil the show for those behind or around them. That's a fact. Many times induvidual members of the audience have stated they loved the show and the lack of distractions. To put on a good show is paramount and that includes controlling the distractions to both the performers and the audience.


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Jun 05, 2013 22:34 |  #52

If they have a pro videographer or pro photo, it is simply a money grab. A friend has a daughter in dance and he AVERAGES about $600 a month on entry fees, costumes, travel expenses and various related expenses including private dance lessons from the studio.
They are not shy at all that the reason they have no video and photo rules is to increase their income PERIOD. They even reserve center stage area for the pro photogs to work from. So prime space taken away from families so the studio can make more money from the kids and families.
I am just glad I have no girls and never go involved in that mess.


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Jun 05, 2013 23:19 |  #53

LincsRP wrote in post #16003307 (external link)
It's simply business. I turn up. Shoot and get sales. The average attendee go to work and get paid. The difference is I'm speculating for sales and they're on an hourly rate with sick pay, holidays etc.

They choose to buy or not but, as pointed out other attendees shooting with ipads and other gadgets do spoil the show for those behind or around them. That's a fact. Many times induvidual members of the audience have stated they loved the show and the lack of distractions. To put on a good show is paramount and that includes controlling the distractions to both the performers and the audience.

Totally agree that many people have no sense of restraint or courtesy toward others. No dispute there at all. I still disagree with the practice, though.

"Simply business" just means it can be enforced. It's not a justification in and of itself.


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Jun 06, 2013 00:05 |  #54

From reading the initial memo, I can understand it completely. Most of the people here, being either pros or serious amateurs, know that being inconspicuous and not disturbing the performance for the rest of the audience is every bit as important as getting good shots.
Unfortunately, the majority of cell phone/iPad/P&S camera owners have no such common sense. The poster who was amazed by the number of cell phones he saw being held up during a performance is a graphic example of that, which is a very good reason for the hard line most venues have taken regarding "no photography" at all.
In some cases I'm sure it's to avoid competition with the hired photographer who is trying to make a living, but I suspect that eliminating the ignorance factor is a much bigger concern.
And yes, if I were in the audience and had to put up with looking at the cell phone of the jerk in the seat in front of me instead of my child's performance, I'd be royally pissed also.......




  
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francis_a
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Jun 06, 2013 00:09 |  #55

I just did an impromptu shoot of a dance recital, actually 2 shows with just 2 days notice, just this past weekend.
The Director/Owner requested me to be her "official" photographer with a non-binding agreement. Meaning, I only provide what I can given the time constraints.

This all started because I volunteered as the photographer for the class photos that will be in the recital program and another of her school's event. I guess she liked how the photos turned out so she asked me to do the recital as well.
So it's good to be noticed by the owner beforehand so you have at least positioned yourself to be the "official" photographer.
Even now, we're already discussing future shoots of her other school events.

As to the no photo/video policy ...... I was working alongside the official videographer and we both agreed that we don't mind parents taking their own photos or videos but ... Those guests who just can't understand how it's potentially (and I mean potentially) dangerous strobes are for the dancers. It's quite disorienting especially if multiple strobes are firing at one time. The house staff had to approach these guests to remind them of that policy. House policy was "No Flash Photography". As for videos, I think it's more of just a matter of courtesy. Imagine lots of bright screens right in front of you while you're trying to enjoy the show. Kinda annoying, really.

Edit: Oh yeah, just to add more info. The school's Director did not and does not have any monetary interests on the photos that I took. If I ever sell any of the photos, all the profit are mine. The only thing she asked for was if she finds photos that she likes, that I give her full, unrestricted access to them, which sounds very fair to me.


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GerryDavid
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Jun 06, 2013 00:42 |  #56

francis_a wrote in post #16004428 (external link)
I just did an impromptu shoot of a dance recital, actually 2 shows with just 2 days notice, just this past weekend.
The Director/Owner requested me to be her "official" photographer with a non-binding agreement. Meaning, I only provide what I can given the time constraints.

This all started because I volunteered as the photographer for the class photos that will be in the recital program and another of her school's event. I guess she liked how the photos turned out so she asked me to do the recital as well.
So it's good to be noticed by the owner beforehand so you have at least positioned yourself to be the "official" photographer.
Even now, we're already discussing future shoots of her other school events.

As to the no photo/video policy ...... I was working alongside the official videographer and we both agreed that we don't mind parents taking their own photos or videos but ... Those guests who just can't understand how it's potentially (and I mean potentially) dangerous strobes are for the dancers. It's quite disorienting especially if multiple strobes are firing at one time. The house staff had to approach these guests to remind them of that policy. House policy was "No Flash Photography". As for videos, I think it's more of just a matter of courtesy. Imagine lots of bright screens right in front of you while you're trying to enjoy the show. Kinda annoying, really.

Edit: Oh yeah, just to add more info. The school's Director did not and does not have any monetary interests on the photos that I took. If I ever sell any of the photos, all the profit are mine. The only thing she asked for was if she finds photos that she likes, that I give her full, unrestricted access to them, which sounds very fair to me.

How did you sell the images after? I did a recital once many years ago, not a single sale. But it didnt help that it was short notice, that event was the last day of classes for the summer, etc.

Posed portraits in the school is very profitable though. :)


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francis_a
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Jun 06, 2013 00:51 |  #57

GerryDavid wrote in post #16004489 (external link)
How did you sell the images after? I did a recital once many years ago, not a single sale. But it didnt help that it was short notice, that event was the last day of classes for the summer, etc.

Posed portraits in the school is very profitable though. :)

Haven't sold anything yet. Still editing the photos and setting up a hosting site. Some parents already asked me about how to buy the photos and the Director already mailed out a notice that photos will be available soon.

I hope I get something out of it. But at this point, being my first recital shoot, really don't mind not make lots of money, or even any. It's more of a getting my foot wet sort of thing.


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Talley
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Jun 06, 2013 22:36 |  #58

francis_a wrote in post #16004502 (external link)
Haven't sold anything yet. Still editing the photos and setting up a hosting site. Some parents already asked me about how to buy the photos and the Director already mailed out a notice that photos will be available soon.

I hope I get something out of it. But at this point, being my first recital shoot, really don't mind not make lots of money, or even any. It's more of a getting my foot wet sort of thing.

If i was seriously thinking of selling the photos I would make damn sure to have a solid system of distribution before the event.


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Jun 06, 2013 22:54 |  #59

sirquack wrote in post #16004199 (external link)
If they have a pro videographer or pro photo, it is simply a money grab. A friend has a daughter in dance and he AVERAGES about $600 a month on entry fees, costumes, travel expenses and various related expenses including private dance lessons from the studio.
They are not shy at all that the reason they have no video and photo rules is to increase their income PERIOD. They even reserve center stage area for the pro photogs to work from. So prime space taken away from families so the studio can make more money from the kids and families.
I am just glad I have no girls and never go involved in that mess.

This x 1000. Pro photogs at kids events are nothing more than a money grab for the organizers of that event. Personally when I've done paid photog work of this type,last time was for a local indie wrestling promotion when Kevin Nash was the special VIP gues at the event and I did in ring shots with himself and fans, I charged $5 for the basic snap shot (nicely set up but straight out of camera printed on nice quality photo paper right on site). If they wanted to pay the extra $25 I took them over to a little area I had set up as a portable studio and they got a nice shot with themself and Kevin on a nice black backdrop with the NWO logos (Kevin brought the backdrop so I was in the clear showing licensed logos) and they could wear the NWO belt from the old WCW days. Those fans I made a list of and edited their photos specially and returned them to the paying customer within 1 week as I had quite a few want them. What I did to appease the gym was that I gave them a cut from the profits I took in. That way I make some money they make some money and the price doesn't seem like a huge cash grab simply for me or the gym. I made it perfectly clear to the paying fans that a part of my proceeds from the night were being given to the gym and everyone was happy with that arrangement.

TL;DR shoot snap shots for $5, higher end classy posed edited portrait style work was more but I gave back to the gym an it made people less apprehensive about paying the extra coin.


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francis_a
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Jun 06, 2013 23:17 |  #60

Talley wrote in post #16007499 (external link)
If i was seriously thinking of selling the photos I would make damn sure to have a solid system of distribution before the event.

Couldn't agree more. However, if you notice from my post, I was asked to do the shoot the shows on a late Friday afternoon, when the first show starts at 1pm on Sunday. Besides, we didn't even discuss the idea of selling the prints, which just surfaced after the parents saw me taking the photos.

That's one of the lessons I learned from this recent endeavor of mine.


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Cannot take photos at my daughters recital??? please read statement by dance studio
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