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Thread started 01 Jun 2013 (Saturday) 10:14
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Prom blurry pics -help with technique!!

 
majin ­ tcz
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Jun 01, 2013 10:14 |  #1

This past Thursday I did some prom I tires for my wife's cousin. We were taking pictures outside and I had my flash in an umbrella off camera shooting with my 135L.

Every single picture I took came out slightly blurry. None were sharp. I'm just trying to figure out where I went wrong in my technique.

I shot in ETTL with the canon ST-E2. I was shooting f2 on the majority of shots. Iso 100. Shutter speed was around 1/100 or slower to get more ambient. I looked at the photos to see if maybe something else is in focus and couldn't tell. So without the photos involved is there anything wrong with the way I shot it.

I shoot with a 5d2. I tried shooting with center focus point on eyes and recompose and changing the focus point to the outer point as a precautionary while shooting and that didn't help. I got home and every one at 100% is off.

Thanks for any advice.


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awad
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Jun 01, 2013 10:53 |  #2

Shutter speed was around 1/100 or slower to get more ambient.

Sounds like this is your culprit. Post a few examples.


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Jun 01, 2013 12:02 |  #3

F2 is very shallow for a prom picture and 1/100 is a little slow for hand holding the 135l. The combination of the two may have been the reason your images are not as sharp as you would like. I would have been in the area of f3.5-f6.3 at 1/160- 1/200.

You can adjust the ISO to get the proper exposure. Did you happen to meter your ambient exposure or were you adjusting according to your LCD?


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majin ­ tcz
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Jun 01, 2013 12:55 |  #4

My flash understanding may be a little off. But with me shooting ETTL just as if the flash is on the top of my camera doesnt the shutter speed just affect ambient light at that point. Isn't the flash supposed to "freeze" the subject?

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cru
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Jun 01, 2013 13:05 |  #5

I would worry at handheld f/2 that "focus and recompose" could lead to some missed focus. It's definitely happened to me before. Other than that I agree that the 135 + 1/100 shutter speed would cause issues too.




  
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Jun 01, 2013 13:08 |  #6

The more power pumping through your flash the longer the duration of the flash. Also, the closer you are to the ambient proper exposure the more blur you may experience. As an extreme example, If I set my camera to 1 second the flash will stop the action of a very small portion of the exposure while the sensor continues to gather light. If you are in a very dark room your flash will have the best chance of stopping the action.

the image you have posted seems to be just off on the focus and not motion blur. If you look at her dress, you can see where the image is sharper. A small DOF and focus on the wrong plane seems to be the issue with this shot. Close down the aperture a tad and nail the eyes and you should see a better image. You can see the DOF in the dress and that gives you a good idea of how much wiggle room you had at that distance. Not much.


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majin ­ tcz
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Jun 01, 2013 13:16 |  #7

Which is what I find interesting I shot this shot with both focus and recompose and with the outer focus points strictly on her eyes but yet nothing in her face is in focus. I understand that the dress being in focus because of a focal plane difference but shouldn't part of her face that is on the same plane also be in focus if that were the case?

Well I see that her dress is not really on the same plane as her face but how does it wind up in focus when I only focused on her face?


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Jun 01, 2013 13:26 |  #8

Not sure if this is why your image is out of focus but when you focus and recompose with a very narrow DOF you can still experience images out of focus due to changing the angle of the film plane changing when you change the angle. With the focus point directly on the subjects eye you can still have movement when you press the shutter. You may not even realize it but you may have swayed back a tad throwing the focus off. You have a very narrow DOF and there are so many ways for the focus to move.


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tim
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Jun 01, 2013 15:50 |  #9

You'd have been better at 1/200th and ISO200.


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Phil ­ V
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Jun 01, 2013 16:50 |  #10

tim wrote in post #15989635 (external link)
You'd have been better at 1/200th and ISO200.

Or even ISO 400 and f2.8

But there's not much contrast on the face to help the AF, no matter how much the camera claimed to have locked AF,


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tkbslc
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Jun 01, 2013 16:56 |  #11

Those look reasonably sharp for the parts that are in focus, but f2 means that not very much of the girl is in sharp focus. I don't think shutter speed was a major issue.

I will say these are not "too" soft and should print OK with some sharpening. The people you are giving these photos to won't pixel peep at them at 100%.


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Jun 02, 2013 11:31 |  #12

majin tcz wrote in post #15989212 (external link)
My flash understanding may be a little off. But with me shooting ETTL just as if the flash is on the top of my camera doesnt the shutter speed just affect ambient light at that point. Isn't the flash supposed to "freeze" the subject?

One thing you always gotta remember in flash photography is that you are always taking TWO PHOTOS simultaneously. TWO. One photo with ambient light, the other photo with flash. Think of the two as completely separate entities and it's easier to execute what you want. Consider what the photo would look like with no flash. In fact, as a learning exercise, first take the photo with NO flash and see what it looks like. If you can see motion blur or camera shake, then you will STILL see it even when you turn the flash on. In order to mask the motion blur and camera shake, you gotta decrease the ambient exposure to a point where you cannot see it. In other words, your subject will be very dark with no details clearly visible. Then when you hit them with flash, it will be the flash that exposes the subject. Because the flash exposure is strong and the ambient exposure is weak, you will get a clear, crisp photo regardless of the shutter speed.

Here are a couple examples.

In this photo, we went into the woods by the reception hall. It was DARK. The only light coming through was a couple of lights on the building that were trickling through. My settings were ISO800 F/2.8 13 SECONDS for a shutter speed. I put the camera on a tripod to avoid camera shake, and set up an off camera light to illuminate the couple. Now remember what I said, if you want a crisp flash photo of your subject, you gotta make sure the ambient exposure on the couple is very low. But the question is, how do you get a background that is bright enough while keeping the subjects really dark? Well, notice I placed the couple directly in the shadow of a large tree trunk. THAT keeps them dark. Then I hit them with the flash and they came out super clear and crisp. It is all about controlling the light. ALL the light, including ambient.

IMAGE: http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/wff/LesleyDaleW/225118_8376.jpg

Then for the following photo, I took a different approach. I WANTED the effect of motion blur visible in the photo to create a dynamic feel to the image and interaction. So I set the ambient exposure so that the couple was around 1.3 stops underexposed. That way, the ambient exposure of the couple would still be visible, but still totally overwhelmed by the flash exposure, which was much stronger. This way, the flash exposure still clearly punches through with a crisp exposure, but you can still see all the motion blur on the couple. I panned and shook my camera during the exposure to create even more of a sense of dynamic motion. Settings were ISO100, F/2.8 1/6, shot on a 50L. Yup, shooting after dark at ISO100. But I needed the 1/6 shutter speed in order to create lots of motion blur in the image.

IMAGE: http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/misc/forumpics/POTN/FlashMix/225700_4816.jpg

So you see, shooting with flash never guarantees a crisp photo. You are always taking two separate photos and slapping one on top of the other. What *YOU* need to do is control the balance between the two photos in order to get the effect you want. And it can go from totally crisp to totally blurred, and everything in between.

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Savethemoment
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Jun 02, 2013 14:51 |  #13

What great examples Lloyd. I think everyone learning flash would benefit from reading your post!

Edit: I want to try these things, need a tripod for 1 :)


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Jun 03, 2013 11:33 |  #14

Shallow DOF (f/2) and focus/recompose don't make for a good combination, IMO...


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Jun 03, 2013 11:37 |  #15

archer1960 wrote in post #15995031 (external link)
Shallow DOF (f/2) and focus/recompose don't make for a good combination, IMO...

This. especially at longer focal lengths.


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