Does anyone do payment plans

cdifoto wrote in post #16018773
So try it. Be innovative. Get rich.

I'm giving it thought. I'm looking at all these other industries that are doing subscription services and making more than photographers. My husband was utterly shocked at the average low income, and I am too.

I wanted to go to kids workshop where someone advertised they raked in $200,000 a year, and he was shocked that that was high for the industry.

One thing is for certain, people doing subscription stuff in other industries are making $.
I think it's worth an honest look, just for consideration. I always look at what others do. In fact theres things I've learned from this photography forum that have become great things that I've implemented in the gym and with our stuff here.

When we did business training they said instructors shouldnt sell the students, that you shouldnt attach yourself to $ and someone else should do the selling. In fact in most big gyms someone else does the selling, because the concept is "if the students attach you to money they will try to get deals and bother you for cancellations and a whole host of other problems". In a lot of respects it's true. However, I looked into photography and I learned more and more the photographer does the selling himself/ herself. and I'm like "if it works here why cant it work for the gym". In fact, it resulted in me getting rid of all my sales people, saving a lot of $ and drama too.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16018799
Wait...

You paid $13,000 for business coaching and you're here asking about payment options? Am I missing something?

For gym consulting... it was specific coaching to marketing, selling, teching and running a martial arts gym. A lot of which is not applicable to here, other than the pmt options, which we do in martial arts, and because i paid all that and learned that's why I'm asking if it works there why not here.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018810
I'm giving it thought. I'm looking at all these other industries that are doing subscription services and making more than photographers. My husband was utterly shocked at the average low income, and I am too.

I wanted to go to kids workshop where someone advertised they raked in $200,000 a year, and he was shocked that that was high for the industry.

One thing is for certain, people doing subscription stuff in other industries are making $.
I think it's worth an honest look, just for consideration. I always look at what others do. In fact theres things I've learned from this photography forum that have become great things that I've implemented in the gym and with our stuff here.

When we did business training they said instructors shouldnt sell the students, that you shouldnt attach yourself to $ and someone else should do the selling. In fact in most big gyms someone else does the selling, because the concept is "if the students attach you to money they will try to get deals and bother you for cancellations and a whole host of other problems". In a lot of respects it's true. However, I looked into photography and I learned more and more the photographer does the selling himself/ herself. and I'm like "if it works here why cant it work for the gym". In fact, it resulted in me getting rid of all my sales people, saving a lot of $ and drama too.

I'm not sure why the major thought and debate on here then. I can't be THAT hard to say "hey, I now have X option" and see how it goes. You don't have a CSR center full of employees somewhere that you need to train on new policy, do you? Just set up some options and mention them when you get inquiries.

cdifoto wrote in post #16018859
I'm not sure why the major thought and debate on here then. I can't be THAT hard to say "hey, I now have X option" and see how it goes. You don't have a CSR center full of employees somewhere that you need to train on new policy, do you? Just set up some options and mention them when you get inquiries.

No def won't be hiring anyone seems more and more its hard to find good ones.

I just didn't know why folks don't seem to do it. It seems its bc most haven't put much consideration into it and that's really the main reason. Didn't know if there was more to it or not

abbypanda wrote in post #16018730
Lets face it, if someone likes you enough to do their maternity pics, why wouldnt they return to you to do their newborn pics? It makes total sense. If someone does baby pics why wouldnt they use you for 6 month pics? You guys are acting like people will just go find someone else and its totally ok. And I'm saying if your service is good and they like you once, why on earth wouldnt they like you again?

They have to know they're going to like you in advance in order to lock into your sub plan. If they think they'll like you and don't, they're kind of screwed.

It's a great way for you to get people to come in no matter what because they already paid for it and lose the money already spent otherwise but it might be a tough sell to those who don't really know you or your work.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018875
No def won't be hiring anyone seems more and more its hard to find good ones.

I just didn't know why folks don't seem to do it. It seems its bc most haven't put much consideration into it and that's really the main reason. Didn't know if there was more to it or not

I've put in a lot of consideration, hence my arguments. There are a lot of pros for the business but not many for the customer.

The only way the sub service is an easy sell is if the customer gets product or service right away. I pay my phone bill for the month I had it. I don't pay it for 3 months and then get some service, pay for another 3 months then get more service. Adobe's cloud even - you get to use it while you're paying for it. You don't pay for it monthly then finally get to use it a little once every couple months. Layaway (the scenario in which you pay and THEN get product) doesn't fly for many people. Even the lease you referred to earlier...you live there while you make your payments. Car loan/lease? You get to drive it while you're paying.

There's really not a great way to get the sub model for photography to work unless you're going to do a shoot/deliver product to correspond with every payment.

cdifoto wrote in post #16018889
They have to know they're going to like you in advance in order to lock into your sub plan. If they think they'll like you and don't, they're kind of screwed.

It's a great way for you to get people to come in no matter what because they already paid for it and lose the money already spent otherwise but it might be a tough sell to those who don't really know you or your work.

This is the most valid point against it, but it applies to anything that is a subscription.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018910
This is the most valid point against it, but it applies to anything that is a subscription.

Not really. Most subs are a scenario in which you don't pay so far in advance that you lose when you stop. Other than the cell phone contracts I mentioned earlier.

You want people paying long in advance of getting anything, and then if they stop paying they simply don't get anything beyond what already had been delivered...ie if they contract for 3 shoots but only two have happened, they lose all money paid after the second shoot and get nothing. That has the potential to be a lot of money. Cell companies do something similar but they have an ETF that's prorated. You pay to get out but that's primarily to finish paying for that subsidized phone you got at the beginning. Without the subsidized phone that they walk out the door with hooked up to a fancy data and voice network, they'd never have signed.

What are you giving them at the beginning, right off the bat? What do they have to show for their contract when they first start paying? Don't tell me a session...remember they don't have the money for it yet or they'd have paid in full.

See, photography is not (usually) an ongoing service or product. Hence subs not really being appropriate. You can set up service contracts of course, but they're more prevalent in commercial photography where one would photograph on a regular basis, and you're not likely to be paid in advance. You're more likely to bill them after a job. A contract simply guarantees you'll get those jobs...not the money. Consumers tend to have more of a "want it now, get it now" attitude.

cdifoto wrote in post #16018892
I've put in a lot of consideration, hence my arguments. There are a lot of pros for the business but not many for the customer.

The only way the sub service is an easy sell is if the customer gets product or service right away. I pay my phone bill for the month I had it. I don't pay it for 3 months and then get some service, pay for another 3 months then get more service. Adobe's cloud even - you get to use it while you're paying for it. You don't pay for it monthly then finally get to use it a little once every couple months. Layaway (the scenario in which you pay and THEN get product) doesn't fly for many people. Even the lease you referred to earlier...you live there while you make your payments. Car loan/lease? You get to drive it while you're paying.

There's really not a great way to get the sub model for photography to work unless you're going to do a shoot/deliver product to correspond with every payment.

These are fundamentally valid points. I think we are debating 3 separate payment options too.

Here are 3 examples:

1)for something like a baby plan they would practically be getting something on a semi regular basis: maternity 1 month, then ordering, then delivery next month, shortly baby is born, so the next month you do the planning, then the baby shoot, then the ordering, then the delivery, then the planning of the 6 month, then shoot, then order, then delivery, and same for 1 year. It may not be every month, but I would bet you could keep them pretty engaged if you wanted to. I think the point for the photographer would be to not drop the ball, but that's just being a good business person really. On the months you do nothing you could always send a small product: "here's a set of cards for this month's holiday for you to send out", look forward to planning the 6 month session next month. This would merely be a bonus but a way to solve the engagement problem you mention. But overall on something like this I think you could keep the person pretty engaged and make it easier than hunting them down in 6 months to schedule their next session. That is the point of sub services, to keep them engaged so they do repeat business. I admit this option doenst work for all aspects (like family portraits, etc)

2) This is more the layaway option. I agree that's prob a harder sell, but depending on how long the term is.

Take for example the upsell. Someone has $500 cash for a package but cant afford $1500 cash for the big one. Do $500 down and 2 monthly pmts of $500. They get the big package. You give them something up front for the down pmt, say like a photo book or whatever you want, and they get the rest when it's paid. Give them something, enough to keep them busy and then they get the rest shortly after. 2 months isnt really that long to wait for a larger picture package anyway, at least I wouldnt think so. No matter how high end a customer is, I bet if you could up sell them with the option of 1-2 payments, a % would do it, and nothing is lost by offering it, provided you dont give them all the stuff up front (which is not a good idea). Edit to say whatever you give up front should be small enough that if they quit you still win, and they have an investment in finishing the pmts,as you mention in your example. This option I would not do more than 2-3 pmts I'd think.

3) This is the pre paid option. Customer knows your product and prices and wants X product. Knows they cant afford it in a lump sum, or just wants to start working on it while they can. You let them make payments and do the session once it's paid. The example on this was weddings. They pay for engagement, and make payments towards the wedding. This type of sell you could present after the engagement session or before, with the option to do it after. At that point they either liked the engagement session or not, and they know they got a wedding coming and they know if they want to hire you. If they do they pay x down adn x upon completion, or x down and x per month towards it. There have been legitimate times in my business I've been hit with things and I've preferred to do payments on things so I dont have to come up with a huge sum later. This is merely an option and I have no interest in weddings, so I def dont see myself doing this. But I could see it's potential. By doing this you lock the couple that got the engagement session into the wedding. And if they are happy with the session, why on earth would they not want to use you for a wedding? It SHOULD be win win.

cdifoto wrote in post #16018920
Not really. Most subs are a scenario in which you don't pay so far in advance that you lose when you stop. Other than the cell phone contracts I mentioned earlier.

You want people paying long in advance of getting anything, and then if they stop paying they simply don't get anything beyond what already had been delivered...ie if they contract for 3 shoots but only two have happened, they lose all money paid after the second shoot and get nothing. That has the potential to be a lot of money. Cell companies do something similar but they have an ETF that's prorated. You pay to get out but that's primarily to finish paying for that subsidized phone you got at the beginning. Without the subsidized phone that they walk out the door with hooked up to a fancy data and voice network, they'd never have signed.

What are you giving them at the beginning, right off the bat? What do they have to show for their contract when they first start paying? Don't tell me a session...remember they don't have the money for it yet or they'd have paid in full.

See, photography is not (usually) an ongoing service or product. Hence subs not really being appropriate. You can set up service contracts of course, but they're more prevalent in commercial photography where one would photograph on a regular basis, and you're not likely to be paid in advance. You're more likely to bill them after a job. A contract simply guarantees you'll get those jobs...not the money. Consumers tend to have more of a "want it now, get it now" attitude.

This is why you front load it with 20% down. Most services recommend getting 20% down.
And in the case of the maternity yes they get the first session. I mentioned they dont have the $ for it.. not b/c I am talking about catering to broke folks that cant afford 1 session, but b/c not everyone has the $ to pay for 4 sessions up front, esp when they have other expenses with the baby. That's different than not being able to pay for 1 session.

If you get 20% down and a commitment and then you do the session and they are still paying monthly, if they quit you still won. Bc if they quit at any point in that up until any product is due, I would not deliver it, because it's a package deal. Likely, this how I'd see it working: someone has you do maternity and they like it. At this point you offer the plan. By now they a) know if they like you and your product and b) know if newborn, 6 month and 1 year sessions are something of value. At that point they paid for the maternity session adn product with no obligation and they can begin paying towards the future sessions or the "package deal". Upon first monthly payment I would get with them to plan newborn session and go from there. The first month or 2 of payments, you would be delivering product and service easily. B/c most have the baby within that time after maternity shots anyway. By the 6 month and 1 year there might be a brief period that you dont provide a service, but by that point they've had enough interaction with you to trust you and not have a problem. In addition, if the payment is 6 months or 1 year, they should be entirely paid in full before the 1 year pictures, if they start paying BEFORE the baby is born. So yes there's some months they may not have a service, but on the other hand, by the last session they are all paid up and owe nothing more, which is nice too.

I appreciate your input, seriously. I am thinking through this yet.

I'm not entirely writing it off either. I'm just trying to think of ways it could work without screwing either side in some fashion. To me it also has to be an easy sell. For me to stretch payment out in any way whatsoever, it has to be a last "can't resist that opportunity" resort for the client who's wavering on signing a deal. It shouldn't be something I have to pitch really hard. I don't want to work hard to sell something that I don't even really want them to engage in. I MUCH prefer to get a deposit to schedule it then my big payday when we actually do it. Dragging it out isn't what I want at all. I certainly don't want to be waiting to do a shoot until the payments have reached the minimum requirement. I don't like having stuff on the table like that.

Do new moms actually have enough money to buy that many sessions? Payment plan or otherwise, that gets expensive. Unless you're cheap. But then if you're that cheap, are you being fair to yourself? The people I know who do that many are going to the cheaper (or free) photographers who don't really have much experience or skill. It could work for that though if you have people with some amount of money overall to do that.

You could have them put a percentage down, for sure. If you're doing that though why have payments? That's your basic deposit then final payment model. Deposit plus payments until it's paid off is kind of like a home or car loan. Easier to sell when there's something for them right off the bat.

By the way, I'm speaking from the experience of having quite a few "poor" clients. They had to save their butts off but they did because it was important.

I don't really have any desire to be regarded as having the same importance as a cell phone.

cdifoto wrote in post #16019072
I'm not entirely writing it off either. I'm just trying to think of ways it could work without screwing either side in some fashion. To me it also has to be an easy sell. For me to stretch payment out in any way whatsoever, it has to be a last "can't resist that opportunity" resort for the client who's wavering on signing a deal. It shouldn't be something I have to pitch really hard. I don't want to work hard to sell something that I don't even really want them to engage in. I MUCH prefer to get a deposit to schedule it then my big payday when we actually do it. Dragging it out isn't what I want at all. I certainly don't want to be waiting to do a shoot until the payments have reached the minimum requirement. I don't like having stuff on the table like that.

I agree on the hard sell and opportunity for the client. I agree about getting not dragging it out. If you get 20% down that should be enough for at least 1 session, i mean if most are charging session fees of $149 the 20% down should be more than that anyway.
I guess the ? I have is "how long does the avg person take to deliver product"
This I dont know.

I want to say one photographer around here's site says 6 weeks or something. If they pay 20% down you already got a payment or 2 by the time 6 weeks rolls around. So in the case of an upsell, you have someone who wanted a larger package and couldnt afford it as a PIF, so you let them do 20% down and 2-3 payments. Going off this 1 persons delivery schedule, you already got 20% and at least 1 payment, That's enough to justify providing some of the package (enough to hold them over) while they do the final payment or 2. If I really wanted something and had to wait a month and make a pmt or 2, I would at least consider it.

i wondered this myself, but I see people offering these sessions, people from all over. It seems to be becoming a thing with the baby market. Price ranges I've seen are $600-$2000 something for the package from what I see. Now what the person gets for that IDK I have to investigate this whole thing further, part of which I'm doing now. It will prob take a good year or more of time. But what I do see is that's the price and the person pays 50% up front and 50% later on, or like x amount spread over the amount of sessions. And I'm thinking thats still a lot of $ and then I bet a good part of the time the person defaults on the payments, and you have to hunt them down.

Now you are right there are some months the person pays and doesnt get anything, but if they PIF it's gonna be a year before they see the final product anyway.

And i want to say I think $600-2000 is too cheap and that's part of why I'm asking,there has to be a better way to get higher without folks say, crapping themselves.

Take the gym for example. Most folks walk in and their dream is to get a black belt. Now many of you reading this dont know but what if I told you any martial arts gyms goal (if they are professional and do this for a living) is to make $250/ student a month average in sales and dues. And by the time you get a black belt you spent $20-$30,000. Now if you took your kid to karate and they told you that, might you... crap yourself....

I'm just trying to think how you can get more and avoid sticker shock. I know this happens even with high end clients, b/c I see most photographers offer a cheap session fee and then sales after. Let's face it, a $149 session fee is piddly if your going for a $1,000-$8,000 sale. But a lot dont put that up front for sticker shock I imagine.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018700
If you don't mind me asking do you live in the us?

Yes.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018700
Why wouldn't someone do direct debit?

Trust issues? I'm more likely to trust a utility company than I am a sole proprietor photography business but basically nobody draws my money out but me.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018700
People use direct debit for bills, gym memberships, supplement subscriptions, movie subscriptions, magazines, heck even skin care like proactive, and a whole lot more. Some people prefer it.

I don't use it for anything at all. We have one direct debit - my wife's gym membership and I object to that.

abbypanda wrote in post #16018700
To suggest people do it for all those things and they would be stupid to do it for photography suggests that photographing something like a baby's first year isn't something someone would value the same as any of the above. I believe its more valuable honestly.

Never said it was stupid so don't put words in my mouth. I disagree as to the model working at all for photography. I just don't see it.
I think a model that might work for lower income people would be a private label credit card if such a thing still exists. This kind of card was used for luxury purchases by people who couldn't get a visa or mastercard and were lured in by in-store financing for appliances, furniture, jewelry, etc. The salespeople in such establishments were often able to see how much credit the customer had available and up-sell them accordingly.

Bottom line: I think your time would be better (more profitably) spent prospecting for customers, networking, marketing materials, web seo, etc than any time spent on maintaining a payment plan.