Help for advanced beginner

I need some help. I will be going to our place on Lake Pend Oreille in northern Idaho next month. It is one of the most spectacular places on the face of the earth. I have been into photography for a little over a year. I have a good grasp on exposure triangle and depth of field. But things like metering and such escape me.

I would like some advice from those who regularly (or successfully) shoot landscapes. I know that the conditions change for every location, but what are some settings that I particularly want to pay attention to? When I was in Montana last year I took some great shots. But some were let downs. The sky was washed out and there was a general haziness to the shots. When you are shooting in a place called "Big Sky Country", having the sky washed out is a kick in the...well, it's disappointing. And I don't want to make the same mistake this year.

I may also get the chance to shoot some lightning. I tried this last year with some success, but I didn't have cooperating lightning.

Any shooting tips help.

Thanks!

The problem you describe is a core issue in landscape photography. Balancing the sky and the land so that the whole scene appears how the human eye sees it (vs. 'camera vision') requires some intervention on the part of the photographer. You can't just meter for the land or the sky and expect to get good renditions of both. You have to take control of the tonal range either by shooting multiple exposures and blending them together with software or else by using a graduated neutral density filter. There are a lot of recent threads here in this forum about the merits and drawbacks of each approach...happy reading...

I second the recommendation to take multiple exposures. Even if you don't have time to read up on blending exposures before your trip, using the bracketing feature to get +/- 2 EV exposures for your shots would give you a lot more options once you do read up on it.

As with any other type of photograpy, successful landscape photography is all about the light. I remember reading in a book awhile ago (I think it was one of Scott Kelby's) that the author's editor wouldn't even look at his photos if they weren't shot during the golden hour (i.e. 30 minutes before/after sunrise/sunset). I don't know if I agree with this entirely, but if I were to rank order all of my landscape photos, I bet the top 10% were all taken during this time of day. The next thing you really have to pay attention to is the tonal difference between the land and sky. The easiest shots are those where the sun is behind you (i.e. front lit). Unfortunately, those tend to be the most boring. Side lit and back lit landscape photographs can be the most dynamic, exciting photographs, but you have to understand the tonal range you're dealing with. Shooting at the right time of day is going to help, but when the tonal range still exceeds what your camera can capture in one frame, you have to make a decision. Do you want to underexpose one area of the photograph in order to highlight the properly exposed area (you probably don't every want to overexpose), or do you take multiple frames as doidinho suggested and then blend them during post processing. Then, of course, there's the ever popular graduated neutral density (GND) filter, which will allow you to compress the tonal range of the scene by darkening only part of the scene.

As far as actual camera settings, generally a large f-stop and a small ISO. . .which is probably going to result in a very slow shutter speed, especially if you're shooting early or late in the day. And if you want a vibrant sky, you really need to shoot early/late in the day. So, you probably already know this, but you're definitely going to want a tripod. I'd also invest in a circular polarizer if you don't already have one. That's one of the few filters I own, and although there are certainly times when I don't use it, it's always either in my camera bag or on my camera if I'm going to shoot landscapes.

I only recently learned about bracketing, which means I now know more about bracketing than I know about PP.

I was talking more about camera settings. And I don't mean f/11, 1/200, ISO 800. I mean things like spot metering vs evaluative metering, camera settings like the "highlight tonal priority" setting, which I found out about this morning.

I just read a thread (and the links contained within) about GND filters and plan on getting some. A lot of light bulbs went off for me while I was reading that thread. Thanks, Phrasikleia (I hope I am pronouncing that correctly, ha!)

In the last year I have gone from not knowing what would happen if I changed the aperture (hell, I had to concentrate to remember that a higher number meant a smaller opening!) to having a firm grasp on f stop, shutter speed, and ISO. So I am learning, but I still have a long way to go. I kind of feel like I should learn to take good pictures first, and then learn to maximize them in PP afterward.

10mm Fan wrote in post #16024770
I only recently learned about bracketing, which means I now know more about bracketing than I know about PP.

I was talking more about camera settings. And I don't mean f/11, 1/200, ISO 800. I mean things like spot metering vs evaluative metering, camera settings like the "highlight tonal priority" setting, which I found out about this morning.

In general, evaluative metering is best for most landscape shooting, but my advice would be to shoot raw and use the histogram to gauge how well you've exposed the scene. Getting accurate histograms requires using settings that make the photos look a bit bland on the LCD, but it's a worthwhile compromise. (The very best way to get accurate histograms is to use UniWB, but that's an advanced technique that is the subject of long threads here.)

Try this test to get reasonably accurate histograms:

Step One: I recommend starting out with "Picture Style" set to "Neutral" and with anything else that might affect the JPEG preview turned off. Leave the settings for Highlight Tone Priority and Auto Lighting Optimizer turned off. Turn on the option to have the Highlight Alert (a.k.a. "blinkies") display when previewing photos; it will indicate any areas where you have clipped highlights. Then go out and take some test photos, trying to expose so that you have histograms that lean as far to the right as possible without clipping any highlights. Use the option to see all of the histograms (RGB and Brightness); make sure that none of them have data clipped on the right side. You should see no blinkies in your preview.

Step Two: Now open these files in a raw editor and make sure that the histogram is visible. Confirm that what you were seeing on your camera's LCD is accurate. You should have no clipping at the right but also very little headroom remaining (i.e. you're as close as you can get to the right without clipping). If your data at this point looks pretty close to what you were seeing on your camera's histograms, then you're all set. If it's not very close, then try adjusting the "Picture Style" settings until your camera's histograms are more accurate (the Sharpness setting in particular can have a big effect on the histogram). The worst case scenario would be to have a histogram that reports the data as being darker than it really is (i.e. it's skewed too far to the left, telling you that there is no clipping when there actually is clipping in the raw data). If it's reporting clipping a bit too soon, that's not so bad; then you can shoot knowing that you have a bit of headroom beyond what the camera is reporting.

Once you've gotten your settings on the camera to where they produce reasonably accurate histograms, then it really doesn't matter what metering mode you use. Check your histograms habitually while shooting and expose as far to the right as possible without clipping any highlights (anything that is clipped is gone forever, and since the eye is attracted most to the brightest areas of an image, those are the parts that you most want to protect).

Yes, definitely work on mastering the camera first. I personally do not use GND filters anymore, but they are great for anyone who has not yet learned post processing or simply does not care to do much of it. That said, I would recommend that for your most exciting situations you do some bracketing without the GND filters for future use. Get the shot with the filter, but also try to get a bracketed set in case you later learn some advanced processing techniques and want to revisit some of your best shots.

Hope this info helps. Enjoy!

Almost all of my landscape shots start at ISO 100 and F/8-11 in aperture priority mode. I utilize evaluative metering, shoot a frame, and then check the histogram. Blown highlights or blocked shadows? I use the exposure compensation to drop/add a stop or two or use the manual mode if I need more range and then manually blend in photoshop. I always shoot on a tripod even if it's in the middle of the day so I always have the option to blend multiple frames. Shooting in -2/+2 helps but it helps more to understand why you need to do that and the benefit versus just blindly shooting. Just keep practicing and post pictures here so we can all help!

A CPL might help with the haze. A GND or blending will help with the washed out skies. I always use a tripod for landscapes because it makes me slow down and think more about framing and composition. It also allows me to use slower shutter speeds and lower ISO/smaller apertures as well as being easier to have the camera at strange angles.

Make sure your ISO is no higher than needed, make sure you have the right aperture and focus distance to get everything in focus (you can also try focus stacking), pay attention to crooked horizons/verticals, try to plan ahead and know what you want to shoot so you spend less time scrambling around trying to find an interesting subject while the light disappears.

I always shoot my landscapes in manual mode. If I don't have my light meter with me, I'll use spot metering in the camera to evaluate the bright, dark and middle toned areas of the scene to get me in the right ballpark. If you haven't learned how to use the histogram, I'd highly recommend it. That thing is just a wonderful tool to help evaluate your exposure. I also always shoot raw, so I won't be any help with in-camera settings for jpg.

Wow, that is some great information! Thank you so much. Bracketing seems better for me than GND as it will help me better understand colors. Plus it is considerably cheaper since Canon seems to be adamant that none of their lenses have the same diameter front element.

I am heading to Utah this weekend. I will take some shots using this advice and see how we do. There is plenty of spectacular scenery in southern Utah, but the colors (and sunlight, for that matter) are completely different than Idaho. Is this even a concern?

I will post the shots when I return.

I always shoot RAW + JPEG. Should I only shoot in RAW to maximize memory card space? Not that I don't have plenty of cards.

Thanks again, everyone!

Don't forget to get out there early, early, early and take a flash light/jacket.......and have fun.

A lot of what I have read has talked about civil twilight. I plan on shooting a lot from the house in the AM. I can set up the camera on the tripod and just get up and start snapping pics. I don't even have to put on pants! But a couple of the places I want to shoot from are virtually inaccessible at civil twilight. Plus civil twilight coincides with drinking time and recovering from drinking time.

Having fun shouldn't be a problem. I am so excited to try out the suggestions in this thread I'm about to pee my pants-and I don't leave for a month!

I am heading to Utah this weekend. I am going to try the suggestions in this thread and will post the results.

10mm Fan wrote in post #16029558
A lot of what I have read has talked about civil twilight. I plan on shooting a lot from the house in the AM. I can set up the camera on the tripod and just get up and start snapping pics. I don't even have to put on pants! But a couple of the places I want to shoot from are virtually inaccessible at civil twilight. Plus civil twilight coincides with drinking time and recovering from drinking time.

Having fun shouldn't be a problem. I am so excited to try out the suggestions in this thread I'm about to pee my pants-and I don't leave for a month!

I am heading to Utah this weekend. I am going to try the suggestions in this thread and will post the results.

Shooting during the golden hours is a good idea, but a picture under less than optimal lighting conditions is always better than no picture at all. As for the GND, although I think multiple exposures works as well or better, don't let the various front element sizes alone be a reason not to go that route. You really don't want the screw on type GNDs, and buying multiple sized adapters for the slide in GNDs really isn't very expensive. So, not trying to change your mind there, just making sure you fully understand both the pluses and minuses.

Oh, and RAW only vs. RAW+JPEG. . .whatever works best for you. About the only time I shoot RAW+JPEG personally (which is almost never) is if I need to get a finished product out very quickly, but may want to go back and do a bit more editing to the RAW file later. For landscape, that's never been the case for me. That said, I don't think it hurts to have the JPEG as well if that's what you want to do. Unlike sports photography, I'm not taking hundreds of pictures on a single outing, so running out of memory on my CF card is never really an issue (I still bring extras, though).