Am I in an unusual scenario?

Hi There,

I have my first "official" photo gig in a couple of weeks from now, and I am having a difficult time deciphering the scenario as it stands now, and how I should proceed from here....

-A husband and wife have hired me (sort of--more on that in a moment) to photograph them for two hours in the afternoon outside and for two hours at night during a party they are having. They have agreed to pay me $100/hr.
-Everything for their celebration day/night has been arranged through an event planner, which happens to be a very good friend of mine. I have never met the couple I will be photographing, but my event planner friend knows them quite well.
-So the couple basically told my friend (the planner) that they want a cake, a harp player, a private room at such and such hotel, and a photographer (me). My friend said that the client has agreed to do the $100/hr. for the photographer. At that point I am basically "hired."
-There is no paperwork involved in anything. As I mentioned, they know each other so it has been pretty informal. I also do not communicate with the client--everything is arranged through the planner as liason. The only thing established (and this was weeks ago) is that I am getting paid to be the photographer.

So here is the scenario that I don't know whether it's unusual or completely normal: they're paying for my services as photographer, but what does that mean exactly? Obviously I will be shooting constantly during the four hours, but they have no idea what they are eventually getting as the final product. What are they paying for? Do I pick 5 pictures that are in my opinion the best, process them, and email them jpgs? Should they be expecting a certain amount? Do I send them every single picture I take (after I delete the obvious rejects) and have them choose the ones they like, and if so, how many?

In other words, is it normal to have someone agree to pay for your photography without knowing exactly what they're getting? I don't want to get in any awkward situations where there are surprises or unrealistic expectations.

Help!
Randy

What you should do is send the planner a list of what the client will get from you. Its unusual, but not uncommon to get hired for gigs without specific details. People who are not photographers do not usually know the details of our work. You as the professional then nee to be responsible for setting reasonable expectations and getting confirmation.

I recommend that you scout the locations for the portraits and pre select a few choice places for portraits with good backgrounds. Make sure you have locations for shade, avoid getting sun in the subjects eyes, and review your lighting options. Off camera lighting even in daylight is a standard for professional work. For the party focus on portraits of the couple with their friends and add posed photos of other guests, photos of the food/band/entertainmen​t, and WA photos of the whole room or party.

From your photos from the whole day, I would pick the best 200-300 for basic editing(crop/exposure/​wb fix) and provide them on CD at high res(8 by 12) to the client. These are big enough for prints at almost any size, and completes your service.

-Scott

This is exactly what a contract is for.

"In other words, is it normal to have someone agree to pay for your photography without knowing exactly what they're getting?"

It's not normal (or at least not smart) for anyone to agree to pay for anything without knowing what they're getting. And it's not wise to agree on doing a job without knowing exactly what the job is, which is what you appear to be doing.

Who's paying you, the couple or the planner? It sounds like the planner is hiring you, but you don't sound clear about it. All the questions you're asking here should be asked of, and very clearly answered by, whoever it is that's paying you. In writing.

I don't know how unusual it is, it happens quite a bit, but it isn't recommended. With no contract, specifying what you are shooting and providing by way of digital images and / or prints, you are leaving yourself open to all sorts of arguments at a later date. If they think they are going to get all the images, processed, high res and ready for printing, and you aren't prepared to provide that, then who is in the right? With nothing in writing you cannot simply point out that the contract states 4 hours shooting and (for example) 10 low res images, processed and on CD to be provided, with additional images and prints (or high res files) available at extra cost.

Always get the details sorted before the shoot, and get it written into a contract, making sure the clients understand what you will be providing.

bbvdm wrote in post #16027129
This is exactly what a contract is for.

I know what a contract is for--thank you. I am looking for advice on how to deal with the current situation.

RandMan wrote in post #16027223
I know what a contract is for--thank you. I am looking for advice on how to deal with the current situation.

And his advice, echoed by others, is to sort out a contract. OK, he may not have put it across in the best way, but he gave you the right advice. Getting snotty with people who answer your questions will make it less easy to get advice in future.

sspellman wrote in post #16027128
What you should do is send the planner a list of what the client will get from you. Its unusual, but not uncommon to get hired for gigs without specific details. People who are not photographers do not usually know the details of our work. You as the professional then nee to be responsible for setting reasonable expectations and getting confirmation.

I recommend that you scout the locations for the portraits and pre select a few choice places for portraits with good backgrounds. Make sure you have locations for shade, avoid getting sun in the subjects eyes, and review your lighting options. Off camera lighting even in daylight is a standard for professional work. For the party focus on portraits of the couple with their friends and add posed photos of other guests, photos of the food/band/entertainmen​t, and WA photos of the whole room or party.

From your photos from the whole day, I would pick the best 200-300 for basic editing(crop/exposure/​wb fix) and provide them on CD at high res(8 by 12) to the client. These are big enough for prints at almost any size, and completes your service.

-Scott

Thank you, Scott. I will definitely do some scouting this weekend in the park where I will be shooting the daytime shots, and good advice on the different subjects to shoot at the party.

tomj wrote in post #16027131
"In other words, is it normal to have someone agree to pay for your photography without knowing exactly what they're getting?"

It's not normal (or at least not smart) for anyone to agree to pay for anything without knowing what they're getting. And it's not wise to agree on doing a job without knowing exactly what the job is, which is what you appear to be doing.

Who's paying you, the couple or the planner? It sounds like the planner is hiring you, but you don't sound clear about it. All the questions you're asking here should be asked of, and very clearly answered by, whoever it is that's paying you. In writing.

The wife is paying my friend/planner up front for everything, and then she will be paying me and the cake maker, harp player, and caterer from that. The only document/contract that I believe there is is with the hotel for the room rental at night.

You need to get someone to sign a contract, if its your friend (planner) if she is paying you, or the couple if they are paying you. You need something spelling out exactly what will be provided and when. Even if the planner is setting everything up I would still want to set a meeting with the couple and talk everything over to make sure all parties are on the same page. Your job is not as simple as the cake maker or the harp player. Who knows what your planner friend has told the couple along the lines of deliverables, she could have told them you will supply (20) 16x20 canvas prints, or that you will give everything on a CD .... who knows. Sounds like a sit down with all 3 parties are in order to make sure everyone is on the same page.

I would suspect that since they are paying you $100 per hour they are expecting to see all the acceptable images from the sessions. I mean do you really think they are paying hourly for 5 edited images? The problem is you havent talked about expectations in advance. While its probably important to have a contract, its vital to have an understanding. The clients dont understand your workflow and why editing (selecting the best) are important and why processing is more labor than shooting and what level of editing and processing is to be expected. The planner and the client see you on par with the musician, you are there for x time and you provide the product of that time. You need to manage expectations on both sides.

It sounds like the planner would like to take credit (and responsibility) for the entire project. I would approach the planner with a contract and a detailed list of what you will provide. Make the contract (and therefore your obligations for the shoot) with the planner, so that the couple isn't technically hiring you. At that point, the details you work out with the planner are secured by the contract, and it's no longer an "hourly" gig. If the planner is smart, they will approach the clients with those details before signing the contract with you.

RandMan wrote in post #16027223
I know what a contract is for--thank you. I am looking for advice on how to deal with the current situation.

The best way to deal with the situation would be to get a signed contract.

That way the client knows what they are getting and you know what you need to produce. Currently you have nothing to fall back on if something goes wrong. For all you know the planner may be promising them the moon on a stick without bothering to inform you.

Is this an unusual scenario ? Not even arriving at an agreement with the client(s) about what the service and product(s) are ? For non-professionals this wouldn't be unusual. For those acting professionally this is probably a rare occurrence.

Thank you all for your advice. I am going to have the planner email the client with a "just to check in and give you an overview of everything" message where my services will be overviewed (for the first time). Hopefully there will be no issues.

I am aware that all of this has happened completely bass ackwards--the combination of this being my first time and the planner and client being friends has ended up greying out a lot of areas. It's a learning lesson for me moving forward.